Q12543 wrote:In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.
I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.
All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.
I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.
The one thing I think he has got better at in the last 2 months is his vision he is making the right pass more often than not now. Is he a great passer no but he is getting better in that area.
Agreed and this will continue to improve with time, but he'll never be a Harden/Jordan/Wade/Ginobilli wing ball handler that can run the PnR with as much ease as a PG. I just can't see him becoming that kind of playmaker. But hitting the open guy when the defense collapses? Absolutely, I think he can keep improving in this area.
Q12543 wrote:In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.
I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.
All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.
I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.
You don't think Wiggins could become a more dominant defender than DeRozan? A higher scoring better defending Demar Derozan is Paul George. That is pretty great as far as I am concerned.
Dominant? No. Defense comes in two parts - staying in front of your own guy one on one and doing team defensive things like weakside shot blocking, generating steals, taking charges, getting defensive rebounds. He's actually a pretty terrible team defender. Individually, I think he can be really good when he gets locked in, but there are too many times where he leaves it in 2nd gear. Last night was one of them and Jae Crowder torched him. That shouldn't happen.
kekgeek1 wrote:Can I just say I love crowder, but this came out of nowhere. Crowder was like the mavericks 9th to 10th man then he was traded and broke out. Let's cool down on the wiggins trading he is 6th all time in scoring before his 21st birthday. He struggled but let's hope he bounces back instead of trying to trade him after every bad game
And when he came into the league it was generally believed his offense would be a work in progress. Let's not sugar coat this, for his age he IS an elite scorer in this league. I see the same things some complain about. The lack of motor, the occasional disinterest, and lack of overall impact on the stat sheet. Those are all valid concerns that are difficult to argue against. But don't forget how easily he can score most nights, and realize he has every physical trait to become not just a good but great defender. Also remember those nights when he's simply willed us to victory with yes, his aggressiveness and drive at the end of games.
I think some of you are so disappointed that he's not going to be the next Lebron, Curry, or Kobe, that you gloss over the fact he's a pretty good player. So maybe he's not going to be a superstar, so what? Every team in the league would like to have him, and every one would be willing to give up a helluva lot more than Jae Crowder.
Q12543 wrote:In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.
I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.
All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.
I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.
You don't think Wiggins could become a more dominant defender than DeRozan? A higher scoring better defending Demar Derozan is Paul George. That is pretty great as far as I am concerned.
Dominant? No. Defense comes in two parts - staying in front of your own guy one on one and doing team defensive things like weakside shot blocking, generating steals, taking charges, getting defensive rebounds. He's actually a pretty terrible team defender. Individually, I think he can be really good when he gets locked in, but there are too many times where he leaves it in 2nd gear. Last night was one of them and Jae Crowder torched him. That shouldn't happen.
I'm surprised you think he doesn't have the tools to become a great team defender. I think team defense takes learning and an actual system. I agree that his team defense isn't great at this point, but at this stage in his career I am not ready to say he can't be a great team defender.
Q12543 wrote:In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.
I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.
All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.
I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.
You don't think Wiggins could become a more dominant defender than DeRozan? A higher scoring better defending Demar Derozan is Paul George. That is pretty great as far as I am concerned.
Dominant? No. Defense comes in two parts - staying in front of your own guy one on one and doing team defensive things like weakside shot blocking, generating steals, taking charges, getting defensive rebounds. He's actually a pretty terrible team defender. Individually, I think he can be really good when he gets locked in, but there are too many times where he leaves it in 2nd gear. Last night was one of them and Jae Crowder torched him. That shouldn't happen.
I'm surprised you think he doesn't have the tools to become a great team defender. I think team defense takes learning and an actual system. I agree that his team defense isn't great at this point, but at this stage in his career I am not ready to say he can't be a great team defender.
Well, he certainly has the physical tools to become a great team defender, but I'm not sure he has the mentality and anticipation skills. Have you ever seen him take a charge? I haven't in the three years I've been watching him. How about steals and jumping passing lanes? That is typically something guys display well before college. Folks don't develop that attribute late in life. Defensive rebounding? Again, this isn't something someone suddenly gets good at after three or four years in the league. He is simply not very good at any of this.
As far as discplined one on one defense, proper rotations, proper help....yes, I think he can get better at those areas and even play "lock down" defense when motivated. But I don't think he'll ever be Kawhi Leonard or Andre Iguodala.
Q12543 wrote:In defense of Wiggins, one thing he does that Crowder will never do as well is become the focal point of a defense. Because of Wiggins ability to get to the basket, he generates a ton of attention by opposing defenses. Crowder has never had to carry the type of offensive load/usage that Wiggins does.
I also don't put a lot of stock into one's emotions on the court. I'm perfectly fine with Wiggins' personality and introverted tendencies. I actually kind of like the contrast with KAT. Look at Kawhi Leonard. That guy never shows emotion and he's probably a top 4 player right now.
All of that being said, Wiggins is not the panacea many thought he would be as a #1 pick. The same issues we see today are the exact same issues on display at Kansas. He's a more versatile scorer for sure, but the handles are still mediocre, the rebounding is mediocre, the floor vision is OK-ish, and his motor is questionable.
I think a higher scoring version of DeMar DeRozan is a realistic expectation. That's a damn good player, but it's not a superstar.
You don't think Wiggins could become a more dominant defender than DeRozan? A higher scoring better defending Demar Derozan is Paul George. That is pretty great as far as I am concerned.
Dominant? No. Defense comes in two parts - staying in front of your own guy one on one and doing team defensive things like weakside shot blocking, generating steals, taking charges, getting defensive rebounds. He's actually a pretty terrible team defender. Individually, I think he can be really good when he gets locked in, but there are too many times where he leaves it in 2nd gear. Last night was one of them and Jae Crowder torched him. That shouldn't happen.
I'm surprised you think he doesn't have the tools to become a great team defender. I think team defense takes learning and an actual system. I agree that his team defense isn't great at this point, but at this stage in his career I am not ready to say he can't be a great team defender.
Well, he certainly has the physical tools to become a great team defender, but I'm not sure he has the mentality and anticipation skills. Have you ever seen him take a charge? I haven't in the three years I've been watching him. How about steals and jumping passing lanes? That is typically something guys display well before college. Folks don't develop that attribute late in life. Defensive rebounding? Again, this isn't something someone suddenly gets good at after three or four years in the league. He is simply not very good at any of this.
As far as discplined one on one defense, proper rotations, proper help....yes, I think he can get better at those areas and even play "lock down" defense when motivated. But I don't think he'll ever be Kawhi Leonard or Andre Iguodala.
Speaking of defense... I've long been rather ho-hum about perimeter defense.
But Marcus Smart is kind of a bad ass defensively. Tenacious. Avery Bradly is right there with him. Good combo defensively.
I think I'll stay out of this Wiggins discussion before something I say gets spun into "Cam hates Andrew Wiggins" two weeks from now when he's on a hot stretch of games. The last thing I need are words that aren't even mine being thrown in my face, which has happened more than once on this board when it pertains to Wigs.
Lip, if you're still reading, what Hawaiian island(s) are you planning on going to? I went to Maui in January for 10 days and it was absolutely beautiful. At the time, it was mating season for whales so on our whale watching voyage we saw easily 40 whales, maybe more, which is a lot for one trip. We even got to see whale birth which was pretty rare. The captain of our boat said that he had been taking visitors out over two years and that's just the third time he had ever seen that. The reason told to us was that the whales stayed closer to the shore than they normally do to mate because the water's warmer there than it is further away from land. If the baby whale is born into too cold of water, there's a sadly high chance that the baby will die of hypothermia. Interesting stuff, really. So, if you have the time and necessary funds (wasn't terribly expensive), I'd absolutely recommend that you experience that. And if you're a fan of fried calamari, there's no place to get it better than Hawaii. Absolutely exquisite. There are also a ton of luaus to choose from and as touristy as it sounds, that was a lot of fun. I'd enjoy sharing more with you when you get back, that is if you're willing to share your Hawaiian experience, but I completely understand if you wouldn't want to. Have a fantastic trip!
Abe, Those Celtic perimeter players are a bunch of freakin' bulldogs defensively. Crowder, Smart, Bradley....goodness they are relentless. If our perimeter guys could fight over screens half as well as that bunch does we would be in much better shape defensively. And there are no easy leak outs either. Those guys haul ass back.
Q12543 wrote:Abe, Those Celtic perimeter players are a bunch of freakin' bulldogs defensively. Crowder, Smart, Bradley....goodness they are relentless. If our perimeter guys could fight over screens half as well as that bunch does we would be in much better shape defensively. And there are no easy leak outs either. Those guys haul ass back.
Makes those 124 points look even more impressive...
[Note: Although I've noticed Boston gets into track meets from time to time. Giving up 110+ 10 times in the past 22 games.]
