Q12543 wrote:My issue with him as always been his defense in the paint. We were by far the worst defense last season and we're almost the worst defense this season. Bigs tend to have a pretty big influence on defense and he's been part of the problem.
However....Since he was inserted into the starting lineup with Towns, the other areas of his game have only gotten better: I suppose playing with a real PG in Ricky and having a couple of other offensive threats beside him in Towns and Wiggins has allowed him to flourish. He's become really efficient and versatile offensively.
The reason he is trade material is because of these very things he does well: Durability, offensive efficiency, decent rebounder. i.e. he could actually get us something really valuable in return.
But I like that this team is starting to develop an identity right now as a high-powered offense that prides itself on ball movement, attacking the basket, and fast break basketball. It's been fun and Gorgs has been a big part of it.
But Q, isn't he really valuable himself? I'm sure other teams would love to have him for all the reasons stated in this thread. But I can't imagine him being worth any more to other organizations than he is to us. We need him badly right now. We don't have much depth up front and G with KAT has been better than good. If we can sign or draft a guy that would have G coming off the bench it would be fantastic. But for now we need him starting and playing 35 minutes per night.
I don't think there needs to be a rush to do anything with Gorgs. I'm just saying that a few phone calls this offseason might be in order. I'd like to see us find an interior presence that does a better job protecting the paint that Gorgs.
Another realistic path is to enter next season and keep rolling with this starting 5 (KAT-Dieng-Wiggins-LaVine-Rubio) and see if they can grow together as a defensive unit. Offensively they are fine and will only get better. But defensively they are not good and interior defense is a big part of it.
We need Thibs or a defensive minded coach or assistant. We don't have one by Sam's own admission. That alone could improve the starting unit's defense quite a bit, plus the hopeful maturation of our young guys. Dieng is fine. I wouldnt mind getting a big who is defensive orientated as the 3rd big to spell KAT and G.
Well, the issue is he's the oldest of the bunch. I'm not discounting further improvement from him defensively entirely, but between his age and 3 years of NBA experience, he must be hitting his ceiling soon. Also, Ricky is not going to get any better defensively given his age and NBA experience, so two out of five guys are what they are on defense. That means we are counting on nearly 100% of that improvement coming from Wiggins, LaVine, KAT, and whatever kind of bench crew we assemble over the next couple of years.
No need to trade any of those five. I expect the 20 year olds collectively to make some major strides in the next 2 years and Ricky and Dieng to improve specific areas of their games. A new coach would also do wonders. I think we can add at least one high impact free agent to the mix as well. And just improving our bench to average would win us many more games. If Glen really is committed to winning, then I like where we are headed.
So if we like Dieng, do we like the lineup of Ricky, Zach, Wiggins, KAT, Gorgui going forward? Is that a playoff (or better yet, Championship) lineup? Do we add our draft pick to our bench with Shabazz/Pek/Tyus? I realize all the young guys are learning how to play in this league and will improve, but I still wonder if there doesnt need to be a MAJOR piece added at somepoint. I feel like we would need a 3 and D wing off the bench (similar to the role Iguadola plays for Golden State) that can play some 3 or 4 so KAT can move to the 5. Do we just assume KAT, Zach and Wiggs all get to elite 2-way player status? Or do we need to replace Ricky at some point.
I know its way too early to answer these questions, but its fun to try.
kurrdog53 wrote:So if we like Dieng, do we like the lineup of Ricky, Zach, Wiggins, KAT, Gorgui going forward? Is that a playoff (or better yet, Championship) lineup? Do we add our draft pick to our bench with Shabazz/Pek/Tyus? I realize all the young guys are learning how to play in this league and will improve, but I still wonder if there doesnt need to be a MAJOR piece added at somepoint. I feel like we would need a 3 and D wing off the bench (similar to the role Iguadola plays for Golden State) that can play some 3 or 4 so KAT can move to the 5. Do we just assume KAT, Zach and Wiggs all get to elite 2-way player status? Or do we need to replace Ricky at some point.
I know its way too early to answer these questions, but its fun to try.
Good questions. I'm going to initiate a separate thread on this.
kurrdog53 wrote:So if we like Dieng, do we like the lineup of Ricky, Zach, Wiggins, KAT, Gorgui going forward? Is that a playoff (or better yet, Championship) lineup? Do we add our draft pick to our bench with Shabazz/Pek/Tyus? I realize all the young guys are learning how to play in this league and will improve, but I still wonder if there doesnt need to be a MAJOR piece added at somepoint. I feel like we would need a 3 and D wing off the bench (similar to the role Iguadola plays for Golden State) that can play some 3 or 4 so KAT can move to the 5. Do we just assume KAT, Zach and Wiggs all get to elite 2-way player status? Or do we need to replace Ricky at some point.
I know its way too early to answer these questions, but its fun to try.
KAT, Dieng and we add another big to the mix. Whether Dieng is our 2nd or 3rd best big, he's still valuable as either the starter or first backup. The Major additional pieces can come from free agency and the draft. But we don't need an alpha dog, we need some good complimentary two way players. Our pick this year and one or two free agents could be eventual rotation players to the 5 core guys we have. Perhaps, Bjelica,Dubljevic, Tyus or Bazz can either develop or be traded for a useful rotation player. I'm fine with that plan and hopefully we can sign the right coach to take us to the promised land.
TeamRicky wrote:
KAT, Dieng and we add another big to the mix. Whether Dieng is our 2nd or 3rd best big, he's still valuable as either the starter or first backup. The Major additional pieces can come from free agency and the draft. But we don't need an alpha dog, we need some good complimentary two way players. Our pick this year and one or two free agents could be eventual rotation players to the 5 core guys we have. Perhaps, Bjelica,Dubljevic, Tyus or Bazz can either develop or be traded for a useful rotation player. I'm fine with that plan and hopefully we can sign the right coach to take us to the promised land.
I completely agree. We don't have any reliable bigs outside of KAT & Dieng. We need good players. Trading away Dieng (a good player) for another good player still leaves us with two good bigs. I'd much rather keep both and add via the draft or Free Agency. Furthermore I have zero confidence in this Franchise to improve themselves via trading a good player right now. Maybe a new GM/Coach will change that concern for me. But as of right now, I feel trading any of our young core guys would only result in making things worse vs. better.
Question for the board. If we landed a top 2 pick would you trade it to Utah for Favors? They lack a top end star and a top pick in the draft is the only way they are gonna get one. We need another defensive presence in the frontcourt and he could play next to Towns and Dieng. Simmons for Favors? Who says no?
Q - I get that Dieng's age and and 3 seasons of NBA experience could suggest he's getting close to his ceiling. But I see three countervailing factors that suggest there is still considerable distance between his current level of play and his ceiling. First, it's my understanding that Dieng started playing basketball later in life. That suggests a late bloomer compared to the vast majority of NBA players who started dribbling a basketball before they could walk. Second, big guys historically take longer to develop. Finally, Gorgui is so intense and serious that he seems like someone who will continue to improve long after most other players plateau.
I would not consider trading Towns, LaVine, Wiggins, Dieng or Ricky. And I'd expect a lot in return before trading Shabazz. That's 6 roster spots that I consider solid going into next season. That leaves 9 roster spots up for grabs as I see it. I would think that Bjelica would take one of those slots. And based on what we've seen from Jones the last few games, I see him on our roster to start next season. Pek will likely consume a roster spot permanently on the bench. That leaves 6 more spots to fill. Plenty of room to add a couple quality free agents.
khans2k5 wrote:Question for the board. If we landed a top 2 pick would you trade it to Utah for Favors? They lack a top end star and a top pick in the draft is the only way they are gonna get one. We need another defensive presence in the frontcourt and he could play next to Towns and Dieng. Simmons for Favors? Who says no?
That's a tough one because I think Favors would be a brilliant fit here. I'm going to say yes with the caveat being that Ingram can't be had when we make the trade. If it's Simmons for Favors, then I'm all over it. We get a big, mean, productive big who's usually around 16/10 per night with good defense and is somehow still just 24 years old.
khans2k5 wrote:Question for the board. If we landed a top 2 pick would you trade it to Utah for Favors? They lack a top end star and a top pick in the draft is the only way they are gonna get one. We need another defensive presence in the frontcourt and he could play next to Towns and Dieng. Simmons for Favors? Who says no?
That's a tough one because I think Favors would be a brilliant fit here. I'm going to say yes with the caveat being that Ingram can't be had when we make the trade. If it's Simmons for Favors, then I'm all over it. We get a big, mean, productive big who's usually around 16/10 per night with good defense and is somehow still just 24 years old.
Cam I agree we would be better and think Simmons has some issues, but think th 2nd pick might be worth more. I wonder if you could get Favors and Burks out of the deal. (Anyone else thining Tyus Jones ceiling is Try Burke?)
Cam - Would you trade a top 5 pick for Kevin Love?
khans2k5 wrote:Question for the board. If we landed a top 2 pick would you trade it to Utah for Favors? They lack a top end star and a top pick in the draft is the only way they are gonna get one. We need another defensive presence in the frontcourt and he could play next to Towns and Dieng. Simmons for Favors? Who says no?
I think it's a two player draft, so I would not make this deal. Anything outside the top 2 and I would.
