Camden0916 wrote:For those that don't believe you can win a championship with Ricky, I have yet to hear a suitable RIGHT NOW fix from any of you. I'd love to hear it. Please educate me on how we upgrade from our already top-15 PG to the point where we are making great strides in W/L AND that singular move is the reason why. Keep in mind that if your idea is to draft another point guard, you can do that without moving Rubio and develop him behind Rubio until he's deemed ready to start over him.
I'll wait for your grand solution.
I'd take Conley or Teague right now over Ricky and we'd win more games.
1. That's pretty subjective, but sure, we might win five extra games on that move alone. Is that getting us into the playoffs by itself? Nope.
2. How do you plan on getting Conley or Teague? There will be a big market for both of them. As you've tried to tell me before, landing a marquee free agent in Minnesota cannot be depended upon.
I think Memphis would have done a Conley for Ricky swap straight up if we offered. I think Dieng and Martin to ATL could land Teague since they are looking to let Dennis take over the point. Also, don't ask a subjective question and then criticize me for a subjective answer. That is my opinion. Feel free to agree with it or don't.
TeamRicky wrote:But we got it right with Ricky and we got it right with KAT. Now we have to assemble the other pieces.
How can you say we got it right with Ricky when we can't sniff a winning record with him? That makes no sense. I don't understand this notion that PG doesn't need to be upgraded on this team when the team has been 1 game above .500 at best with him as a main piece. "We're the worst franchise of all time so let's just keep trotting out what we know doesn't win games.". Makes perfect sense.
So should Anthony Davis be upgraded in New Orleans then?
I know where you're going with it...
But that's such a reach that I had to call you on it.
[Note: By the way, Anthony Davis has been over .500 and made the playoffs as THE guy.]
Anthony Davis is a much superior player to Rubio - that is obvious. But despite him being a franchise-level talent, he STILL has been on a losing squad for 3 out of 4 seasons and barely squeaked into the playoffs the other time where his team ended up being swept. So I guess he's just not good enough, right?
I wouldn't say that... no.
New Orleans won 45 games in a good conference last season... winning 8 of its final 11 games, including a victory in game #82 vs. the defending champs playing for the #2 seed and homecourt advantage. Anthony Davis went for 31/13 in that make-or-break game. They were swept vs. the 67-win and future champion Warriors... largely because of 4th quarter woes. NO was tied entering the 4th quarter in Game 2 and were up 20 in Game 3.
Davis averaged 32 / 11 / 3 blk / 54% fg in that series. The Pelicans' next best player was Eric Gordon. Nobody else averaged more than 10 ppg. And the team's 2nd leading scorer during the regular season shot below 33%.
The Pelicans won more games than the previous season for 3 straight seasons with Davis making huge strides in each of them... until the team regressed and Davis plateaued this season amid a rash of injuries. Former Wolves bench player, Dante Cunningham, is starting next to Davis.
So... no... I think he's good enough to be part of a championship team. I don't know if Rubio is though.
Well, I actually agree with you, but therein lies the silliness. Of course Anthony Davis is good enough to be on a team that wins, and wins a lot. But New Orleans has had one decent season in his four years on the job and they didn't get very far in that one season.
So why is it that Rubio - who most of his biggest proponents on this board agree is not a top 5 PG - is to blame for never being on a team that was .500 or more, yet Anthony Davis - who is the best PF in the game - gets a free pass? Aren't injuries, crappy team mates, coaching carousels, etc. just as applicable to Rubio as they are to Anthony Davis?
TeamRicky wrote:But we got it right with Ricky and we got it right with KAT. Now we have to assemble the other pieces.
How can you say we got it right with Ricky when we can't sniff a winning record with him? That makes no sense. I don't understand this notion that PG doesn't need to be upgraded on this team when the team has been 1 game above .500 at best with him as a main piece. "We're the worst franchise of all time so let's just keep trotting out what we know doesn't win games.". Makes perfect sense.
So should Anthony Davis be upgraded in New Orleans then?
I know where you're going with it...
But that's such a reach that I had to call you on it.
[Note: By the way, Anthony Davis has been over .500 and made the playoffs as THE guy.]
Anthony Davis is a much superior player to Rubio - that is obvious. But despite him being a franchise-level talent, he STILL has been on a losing squad for 3 out of 4 seasons and barely squeaked into the playoffs the other time where his team ended up being swept. So I guess he's just not good enough, right?
I wouldn't say that... no.
New Orleans won 45 games in a good conference last season... winning 8 of its final 11 games, including a victory in game #82 vs. the defending champs playing for the #2 seed and homecourt advantage. Anthony Davis went for 31/13 in that make-or-break game. They were swept vs. the 67-win and future champion Warriors... largely because of 4th quarter woes. NO was tied entering the 4th quarter in Game 2 and were up 20 in Game 3.
Davis averaged 32 / 11 / 3 blk / 54% fg in that series. The Pelicans' next best player was Eric Gordon. Nobody else averaged more than 10 ppg. And the team's 2nd leading scorer during the regular season shot below 33%.
The Pelicans won more games than the previous season for 3 straight seasons with Davis making huge strides in each of them... until the team regressed and Davis plateaued this season amid a rash of injuries. Former Wolves bench player, Dante Cunningham, is starting next to Davis.
So... no... I think he's good enough to be part of a championship team. I don't know if Rubio is though.
Well, I actually agree with you, but therein lies the silliness. Of course Anthony Davis is good enough to be on a team that wins, and wins a lot. But New Orleans has had one decent season in his four years on the job and they didn't get very far in that one season.
So why is it that Rubio - who most of his biggest proponents on this board agree is not a top 5 PG - is to blame for never being on a team that was .500 or more, yet Anthony Davis - who is the best PF in the game - gets a free pass? Aren't injuries, crappy team mates, coaching carousels, etc. just as applicable to Rubio as they are to Anthony Davis?
Sure. In some ways.
But the only track record we have is that Rubio was a complementary player with Kevin Love, Pekovic and Martin... and still failed to win 41 games largely because of 4th quarter meltdowns.
From past discussions, you think it was a fluke. I think it's more telling than that. We can agree to disagree on that...
But we do agree that jettisoning Rubio just to unload him seems to be counterproductive (at best) at this point. Let's worry about his limitations (and the team's viable options) when the time is right. Without even a GM or coach in place... for now, it's a lot of angst and message board drama that won't lead anywhere.
And without those pieces in place... that playoff run that MIGHT prove Rubio's shooting/confidence is a potential problem may never even happen.
TeamRicky wrote:But we got it right with Ricky and we got it right with KAT. Now we have to assemble the other pieces.
How can you say we got it right with Ricky when we can't sniff a winning record with him? That makes no sense. I don't understand this notion that PG doesn't need to be upgraded on this team when the team has been 1 game above .500 at best with him as a main piece. "We're the worst franchise of all time so let's just keep trotting out what we know doesn't win games.". Makes perfect sense.
So should Anthony Davis be upgraded in New Orleans then?
I know where you're going with it...
But that's such a reach that I had to call you on it.
[Note: By the way, Anthony Davis has been over .500 and made the playoffs as THE guy.]
Anthony Davis is a much superior player to Rubio - that is obvious. But despite him being a franchise-level talent, he STILL has been on a losing squad for 3 out of 4 seasons and barely squeaked into the playoffs the other time where his team ended up being swept. So I guess he's just not good enough, right?
I wouldn't say that... no.
New Orleans won 45 games in a good conference last season... winning 8 of its final 11 games, including a victory in game #82 vs. the defending champs playing for the #2 seed and homecourt advantage. Anthony Davis went for 31/13 in that make-or-break game. They were swept vs. the 67-win and future champion Warriors... largely because of 4th quarter woes. NO was tied entering the 4th quarter in Game 2 and were up 20 in Game 3.
Davis averaged 32 / 11 / 3 blk / 54% fg in that series. The Pelicans' next best player was Eric Gordon. Nobody else averaged more than 10 ppg. And the team's 2nd leading scorer during the regular season shot below 33%.
The Pelicans won more games than the previous season for 3 straight seasons with Davis making huge strides in each of them... until the team regressed and Davis plateaued this season amid a rash of injuries. Former Wolves bench player, Dante Cunningham, is starting next to Davis.
So... no... I think he's good enough to be part of a championship team. I don't know if Rubio is though.
Well, I actually agree with you, but therein lies the silliness. Of course Anthony Davis is good enough to be on a team that wins, and wins a lot. But New Orleans has had one decent season in his four years on the job and they didn't get very far in that one season.
So why is it that Rubio - who most of his biggest proponents on this board agree is not a top 5 PG - is to blame for never being on a team that was .500 or more, yet Anthony Davis - who is the best PF in the game - gets a free pass? Aren't injuries, crappy team mates, coaching carousels, etc. just as applicable to Rubio as they are to Anthony Davis?
We're not Pelicans fans. I am sure if Rubio is part of us winning he will shoulder some of the accolades of winning. He is a leader of this team and a very important piece as the dominant ball handler and defender of opposing PGs with a lot of talent league wide. As the placeholder in that position he needs to be accountable for our record to a certain extant. His deficiencies factor into our situation as much as anyone since PGs tear us apart and he holds the ball a lot on the other side. Whether its "truly fair" based on selected measures (advanced stats, eye tests) or not remains to be seen. Ultimately it is a team game, but PG is a uniquely important position, especially in today's game. A lot like QBs.
Does anyone know if this Stevens guy knows the game?
To be fair, did you expect an opposing coach to rip the starting PG for the team he's about to play that night?
No but I also wouldn't expect him to speak glowingly about him unless he really liked him. There are probably easier answers to show indifference.
Meh. Maybe it was savvy coach-speak from a professional when lobbed a question by the hometown media. I never take those kinds of things as gospel.
Relevant or not... less than 2 months into his first season... Stevens shipped out another pass-first PG that has many similar qualities to Ricky Rubio.
