Rubio and Dunn

[KiwiMatt]

There's is nothing wrong with competition for positions and playing time. In fact it's probably something we've lacked for many years.

I see no need to trade Rubio for the sake of freeing up minutes for Dunn. Dunn's a rookie and there's no need to throw him in the deep end right away. Plus a bit of heat on Rubio might be exactly what he needs to take the next step.

This time next season this debate will have more purpose, but at the moment there is no reason why we can't keep both.

[Lipoli390]

I agree, Matt. I like the competition angle you've identified. Thibs has said that he'll play young guys if they perform. First they have to perform in practice in which case they get to play. If they perform in games then they play more. Obviously, Thibs isn't going to move Ricky, a guy who's already proven he can play at a high level as a starting PG before Dunn has, in Thibs' words, "performed."

[KiwiMatt]

Exactly Lip. In my opinion the thought of trading Rubio before he even gets a chance to play under Thibs is premature.

[Monster]

Let's say Dunn is ready to play right away and he plays some good defense. Guess what? Thibs now has a bit of a hammer to drop on Lavine if he doesn't make the right plays or play good enough defense. Boom Thibs can play Dunn at SG. Thibs has played plenty of combo guards in his time as head coach Dunn playing plenty of minutes makes a lot of sense if he is up to the task which I think a lot of us think he will be in one sense or another.

[Monster]

I just listened to Thibs and Layden on spots on Kfan. They didn't come out and actively dispel the Rubio rumors and lets be honest they shouldn't because its possible they move him. In addition they probably have no interest in commenting on every rumor that comes up. What they both said over and over again and Thibs has said its about team. Its about sacrificing for the team. That sounds like Rubio to me. All he wants to do is win and there are a number of people that have said Rubio loves it here. He wants to be here. I feel there is a good chance they go in with both guys and feel great about it.

Listening to Layden talk about two-way players it hit me that I wondered if Flip would have made this same pick. We will never know and its complete speculation, but we all know Flip loved PG types and was also a guy that talked about size and athletic ability to be able to defend multiple positions which Thibs mentioned about Dunn. It feels like in some way Layden and Thibs are continuing Flip's legacy. I'm sure its not going to be exactly what Flip would do but that did come to my mind. Of course according to Lip's info Ryan was also in on the draft so that's obviously part of Flip right there. Its hard to believe it hasn't even been a year yet since he passed away.

I think this is a great question - whether Flip would have made the same pick. Of course, this is all speculation, but Flip was such an important part of establishing what we have that it is fun to think about. He may have felt more emotional connection to Rubio and to Lavine, so he may have been more reluctant to draft their potential replacement - but your comments about 2way players and about PGs makes a lot of sense. I think he would have made the same choice.

Think about this though Flip wasn't afraid to add talent to a roster at spots where there was already a player. Keep in mind he wanted Martin to stick around long term to come off the bench. He drafted Tyus as a piece going forward. I can see him falling in love with any of the guards but Dunn makes a lot of sense also. Like you said fun to think about but I sorta lean towards Flip taking Dunn for a lot of the same reasons Thibs has said he likes him. Fun to think about and also sad too.

[Coolbreeze44]

I agree, Matt. I like the competition angle you've identified. Thibs has said that he'll play young guys if they perform. First they have to perform in practice in which case they get to play. If they perform in games then they play more. Obviously, Thibs isn't going to move Ricky, a guy who's already proven he can play at a high level as a starting PG before Dunn has, in Thibs' words, "performed."

Lip, the problem with your statements is rumors are rampant that Thibs has been trying to trade Ricky since he got the job. Surely they have discussed Rubio in various trade scenarios.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I agree, Matt. I like the competition angle you've identified. Thibs has said that he'll play young guys if they perform. First they have to perform in practice in which case they get to play. If they perform in games then they play more. Obviously, Thibs isn't going to move Ricky, a guy who's already proven he can play at a high level as a starting PG before Dunn has, in Thibs' words, "performed."

Lip, the problem with your statements is rumors are rampant that Thibs has been trying to trade Ricky since he got the job. Surely they have discussed Rubio in various trade scenarios.

If that's true, cool, I either really question Thibs' judgement, or he's taking a longer view than many of us here...i.e. not concerned about making the playoffs this year. Rookie PG's almost always struggle, and many of us aren't prepared for another struggling year.

But you're right...there certainly has been a lot of noise surrounding Ricky. But Ricky leaving Minnesota has been a recurring topic even before he began his career here, and I see this as more of the same. I haven't listened to all of In the Zone this morning yet, but I heard bits and pieces driving around. Dave Sinykin pooh-poohed the rumors. His theory was that in his quest to get Butler, Thibs suggested to the Bulls that he would consider giving up #5 plus anyone other than the Young 3, but when the Bulls asked for Rubio and #5, Thibs got cold feet. We don't know if that's how it played out, but if it did, I feel better about Thibs' judgement.

[Lipoli390]

I agree, Matt. I like the competition angle you've identified. Thibs has said that he'll play young guys if they perform. First they have to perform in practice in which case they get to play. If they perform in games then they play more. Obviously, Thibs isn't going to move Ricky, a guy who's already proven he can play at a high level as a starting PG before Dunn has, in Thibs' words, "performed."

Lip, the problem with your statements is rumors are rampant that Thibs has been trying to trade Ricky since he got the job. Surely they have discussed Rubio in various trade scenarios.

Cool - I don't think think Thibs has been trying to trade Rubio ever since he got here. As we all know, there have been rumors of us trading Ricky almost from the moment he got here. We do know that Milt Newton had talks with Milwaukee about trading Ricky but nothing happened.

The idea that Thibs has been "shopping" Rubio is ridiculous. Ricky is a smart, mentally tough, defensive-oriented, team-first PG. That's Thibs kind of guy. Ricky's production and positive impact on the team are documented in his numbers. He's not someone Thibs is going to try to trade especially before he has anyone to adequately replace him.

I think Thibs and Scott took a lot of calls from teams interested in Ricky. And it might be true that Thibs offered Ricky for Butler because Thibs is in live with Butler. But "trying to trade Ricky"?? I don't think so. It doesn't make sense and Thibs seems like a very sensible guy.

[Coolbreeze44]

I agree, Matt. I like the competition angle you've identified. Thibs has said that he'll play young guys if they perform. First they have to perform in practice in which case they get to play. If they perform in games then they play more. Obviously, Thibs isn't going to move Ricky, a guy who's already proven he can play at a high level as a starting PG before Dunn has, in Thibs' words, "performed."

Lip, the problem with your statements is rumors are rampant that Thibs has been trying to trade Ricky since he got the job. Surely they have discussed Rubio in various trade scenarios.

Cool - I don't think think Thibs has been trying to trade Rubio ever since he got here. As we all know, there have been rumors of us trading Ricky almost from the moment he got here. We do know that Milt Newton had talks with Milwaukee about trading Ricky but nothing happened.

The idea that Thibs has been "shopping" Rubio is ridiculous. Ricky is a smart, mentally tough, defensive-oriented, team-first PG. That's Thibs kind of guy. Ricky's production and positive impact on the team are documented in his numbers. He's not someone Thibs is going to try to trade especially before he has anyone to adequately replace him.

I think Thibs and Scott took a lot of calls from teams interested in Ricky. And it might be true that Thibs offered Ricky for Butler because Thibs is in live with Butler. But "trying to trade Ricky"?? I don't think so. It doesn't make sense and Thibs seems like a very sensible guy.

No it's not. If you're on twitter and you read all the insiders you would know it's far from ridiculous. Where there is smoke there is fire.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

You make the playoffs because of your best players and Rubio being one of our best players to date hasn't helped us make the playoffs so we are obviously waiting for the big 3 to get us there anyway and if that's the case having Ricky or Dunn isn't gonna make much of a difference for our playoff hopes because other guys on the team will be doing most of the work to get us there. Ricky's leadership, playmaking and defense hasn't helped us win much yet so it's gonna be other players who get us over the hump to make the playoffs so I think Rubio is a little overrated on this board. If the big 3 are good enough to get us in the playoffs this year the Ricky vs. Dunn debate won't matter because it will happen with either of them. If you believe Ricky has to be here to make the playoffs that's fine, but he hasn't gotten us close so far so I think at the end of the day if it's gonna happen, it'll happen with either him or Dunn regardless because it will be the big 3 who do most of the legwork to get us there.

Also, Ricky isn't Thibs' kind of PG which is why he's on the block. Thibs has always had scoring PG's be it Rose or all the bench guys he brought in like Robinson and Augustine. Thibs likes the penetrate and score or assist PG's and Ricky isn't that guy. Sure Ricky does things Thibs likes like low turnovers and defense and toughness, but that's not a style of PG. Thibs' style of PG is in the Rose mold, not the Ricky mold.