Rubio and Dunn

[petecorcoran [enjin:6658618]]

I don't think anyone should go into full panic mode yet, just because Washington offers Noah 30 mil, if they really do. First of all, they can afford it, no matter how stupid. But 17 other teams (including us) cannot without immediately going into lux tax... and I certainly hope no one wants to do that for Noah!

If Washington does this, they'll end up with 87 mil in 5 players (Noah, Beal, Wall, Markieff and Gortat). Add 10 mil for Oubre, Porter and Webster... and they'll be paying punitive penalties just to fill the roster.

So, I don't doubt that teams will have to pay more for free agents than in the past. That's the nature of a rising cap. In the end, the stars will get a rising max, the good players might make more than someone currently on a longer term deal and the players on the way up will know their turn is coming. And given that the Wolves have some really good players coming to the "their turn is coming" point in two years, we need to be careful to not overspend.

It may mean we can only afford two decent free agents instead of three, but we'll be able to add talent.

[Monster]

I don't see them together. Neither one is a good enough shooter. Holding off on moving Rubio until he's outplayed by Dunn would hurt his value.

That's not to say he will get outplayed...

This. We made our choice to not draft one of the best shooters. Now we have glaring needs in terms of shooting and a big to split time with KAT and Gorgui. The move now is to trade Ricky to bolster at least one of those areas. I've said from the beginning that the problem with Dunn and Ricky was their redundancy. So that's where we are today.

I expect us to go the free agent route for both a big and a shooter. And I'd guess they'll both be better contributors than KG, Prince, or Andre Miller. The fact of the matter is that this draft looks weak (and we've gotten better)... I didn't see anyone other than Simmons who I thought would step right in and start.

Peter - I agree with you completely. I would have preferred Buddy over Dunn based on Buddy's shooting prowess and absence of any significant injury history. But Dunn was arguably the best talent on the board at #5. In fact some respected analysts had him rated the 3rd best talent in the entire draft. So hard to argue with taking the best overall talent available who is elite in at least one critical area - namely defense.

Now we turn to free agency to shore up our shooting and front court size through free agency. There are plenty available and the Wolves are now an attractive destination for free agents given our young talent and highly respected head coach.

We shouldn't worry about redundancy on a team that was so seriously lacking in depth. At a minmum, Dunn adds much-needed depth at both backcourt positions. If he develops into a budding star, then we have the luxury of trading Ricky at that point. There is no reason to believe that Ricky's value will Diminish. If anything his trade value should go up playing with better players under an elite head coach.

Lip, see Abe's post about what Noah is going to get and you might think differently about how great of a tool free agency is going to be. We start throwing around contracts like that and it will be very difficult to keep anyone other than KAT and Wig.

Cool - If we're counting on getting Noah or Deng, then I see the issue. But I'm thinking more along the lines of the Cole Aldrich, Jamal Crawford and Courtney Lee types. They won't come cheap, but they won't seriously jeapordize our cap position down the road either. And if we believe in our young core, then those types of guys will be enough to shore up our perimeter shooting and big man rotation. The timing of contracts will also be an important variable. In addition, Pek's and KG's contracts will terminate.

Don't get me wrong, I would have much preferred Buddy. But I'm satisfied we can make this work through free agency. Our capologist was on the draft decision-making team. I'm told he's very good. Thibs also mentioned the other day that they had to factor free agency into their draft de idiom-making. So I'm confident our front office has a practical and effective plan in place.

Good news guys!!!! If Noah gets that kind of money it looks like teams will wildly overspend for some guys. Guess what there will be deals out there. Teams will run out of money/roster spots and there will be quality players looking for spots. I've been saying this for months. There will be solid guys that won't cost much.

Now I'll say this which is back to the point of not drafting a shooter. Volume 3 point shooting in FA doesn't look all that exciting. Honestly some of the most interesting guys might be stretch bigs in that department. It will be interesting to see what Thibs and Layden decide to do. Im also somewhat optimistic that some of our shooting can be improved from within.

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

You guys make it sound like we just drafted Ricky 2.0 last night. We didn't! We drafted in my opinion a guy who is nothing like Ricky besides for loving to pass and create and play defense.

Dunn drives the lane and finishes. Unlike Ricky
Dunn attacks and plays at the rim. Unlike Ricky
Dunn has a nice shot, not broke. Unlike Ricky
Dunn is espenentially more athletic. Unlike Ricky

Ricky's shot is straight broken and so is his confidence to shoot. I appreciate his game, but he has always been a liability for the other guys on the court offensively like a center outside 18". I feel the pace, defensive tenacity and Dunns ability to attack the rim will bring a much better and well rounded play to the team.

Enough with this Ricky and Dunn can't play together bull! Or they have the same game or inabilities. Ricky may give us stability on the defensive end, and be a great team leader but this is no longer a Flip and Mitchel team. If Dunn can be a healthy Derrick Rose or John Wall comparison type player then Ricky will be traded sooner then later.

[Coolbreeze44]

You guys make it sound like we just drafted Ricky 2.0 last night. We didn't! We drafted in my opinion a guy who is nothing like Ricky besides for loving to pass and create and play defense.

Dunn drives the lane and finishes. Unlike Ricky
Dunn attacks and plays at the rim. Unlike Ricky
Dunn has a nice shot, not broke. Unlike Ricky
Dunn is espenentially more athletic. Unlike Ricky

Ricky's shot is straight broken and so is his confidence to shoot. I appreciate his game, but he has always been a liability for the other guys in the court like a center outside 18". I feel the pace, defensive tenacity and Dunns ability to attack the rim will bring a much better and well rounded play to the team.

Enough with this Ricky and Dunn can't play together bull! Or they have the same game or inabilities. Ricky may give us stability on the defensive end, and be a great team leader but this is no longer a Flip and Mitchel team. If Dunn can be a healthy Derrick Rose or John Wall comparison type player then Ricky will be traded sooner then later.

Slim, you have Dunn severely overrated. He hasn't played a minute in the league yet. We all like his potential, but until we see tangible evidence that he can be a player your post is over the top.

[Lipoli390]

Right now Dunn provides solid backcourt depth in the form of defense, ball handling, passing and to some extent scoring. How good he'll be, including whether he'll become a starting caliber PG at the NBA level.

[slimcalhoun27 [enjin:6640095]]

You guys make it sound like we just drafted Ricky 2.0 last night. We didn't! We drafted in my opinion a guy who is nothing like Ricky besides for loving to pass and create and play defense.

Dunn drives the lane and finishes. Unlike Ricky
Dunn attacks and plays at the rim. Unlike Ricky
Dunn has a nice shot, not broke. Unlike Ricky
Dunn is espenentially more athletic. Unlike Ricky

Ricky's shot is straight broken and so is his confidence to shoot. I appreciate his game, but he has always been a liability for the other guys in the court like a center outside 18". I feel the pace, defensive tenacity and Dunns ability to attack the rim will bring a much better and well rounded play to the team.

Enough with this Ricky and Dunn can't play together bull! Or they have the same game or inabilities. Ricky may give us stability on the defensive end, and be a great team leader but this is no longer a Flip and Mitchel team. If Dunn can be a healthy Derrick Rose or John Wall comparison type player then Ricky will be traded sooner then later.

Slim, you have Dunn severely overrated. He hasn't played a minute in the league yet. We all like his potential, but until we see tangible evidence that he can be a player your post is over the top.

And us Minnesota fans have Ricky highly over rated also. He in the national observation, fox sports, ESPN, etc etc mostly don't have Ricky in the top 15-20 range of Point Guards currently. Last night a dude was laughing at the thought Ricky was top 15 PG. we hold him on a pedestal because we see the tangibles you speak about. Still a 16-30 win team the last few years.

I get that Dunn hasn't played a minute of a NBA games. But you see his speed, athleticism and strength as his report card. This is not a passive player, his aggression and desire to play hard is what all the other teams gloated about.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Ricky and Dunn are similar in that they are both strong defenders whose ideal rotation slot is starting PG. They can both run the pick-n-roll offense, and they are both 6'4". But they are pretty different players in terms of style of play physically, and on both sides of the ball, which suggests they will give us some variety.

First, Slim is definitely right about the athleticism. You can't watch clips of Dunn for 1 minute before realizing that he's much more athletic than Rubio (check out the video below--if you haven't already).

Another difference is that Dunn initiates a lot of his offense on his own dribble penetration while Rubio orchestrates the offense like a coach on the floor. This is key. Rubio will pick up more assists swinging the ball to open men, while Dunn will get to the rim more. It also partially explains why Dunn turns the ball over more, which I suspect is typical of more penetration oriented PGs.

Defensively, both can/should be able to guard most 1s and many 2s. But Dunn's also a more on-the-ball defender, quicker, and could be put on smaller, quicker guards. Rubio is a great off-the ball defender, although I do like how he fights through screens. Besides, to the extent they are similar, it'll be nice to have two good perimeter defenders--that's a redundancy I'll take.

(the whole vid is good, but if you don't have time, start at 3.14 to see something I'd love to see from a PG in a Wolves jersey)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6WpZnQaYkU

Freeze frame at 3.29. He might have to tone that glower down a bit, but I love the attitude it reflects. By the way, I'd like to see Dunn and Bazz have a dunk scream-off.

[Duke13]

Dunn's assist average for college PG's was very high, wanna say around 6. Watching Dunn the handful of games I had a chance, one thing about his game that really stuck out was his ability and willingness to kick the ball out to perimeter shooters on his drives to the hoop. It's really impressive. I can't wait to see that on our team.
I've been an advocate of drafting Dunn as Rubio's eventual replacement since January. It's no certainty he reaches his potential, but I think the consensus around the league his potential is much higher than Ricky's. They can prolly find a way to make it work for a year, but assuming Dunn plays well, Ricky will be traded within a year. Sorry if this post is repetitive or redundant to what other have said.

[Coolbreeze44]

When you draft as high as #5, and you get a guy who most prognosticators thought was the 3rd best player in the draft, you have to hope you found yourself a starter. Maybe not immediately, but sooner rather than later. I wonder how many teams would plug Dunn right into their starting lineup this year.

The way I look at our situation right now is that these two guards are a luxury. If they both stay, we have one of the best guard rotations in the league. But Thibs likes to play his best players big minutes. I like Ricky and I like Dunn. But I see an opportunity to be a better team by moving one of them, most likely Ricky. I hope / expect to see something happen this summer.

[kekgeek]

When you draft as high as #5, and you get a guy who most prognosticators thought was the 3rd best player in the draft, you have to hope you found yourself a starter. Maybe not immediately, but sooner rather than later. I wonder how many teams would plug Dunn right into their starting lineup this year.

The way I look at our situation right now is that these two guards are a luxury. If they both stay, we have one of the best guard rotations in the league. But Thibs likes to play his best players big minutes. I like Ricky and I like Dunn. But I see an opportunity to be a better team by moving one of them, most likely Ricky. I hope / expect to see something happen this summer.

I don't want to move him but would something like Casspi, WCS and Collison for Ricky be something. I might be asking way to much in return