PorkChop wrote:Ppg, rebs, stls, asst, blks are virtually all unchanged and this is his career year? Not exactly setting the bar high for a guy that continues to be the leader of team that wins at a sub .350 clip.
It feels like fans have been losing for so long that their expectation of whats good has really lowered.
If this is truly Rickys career year like you say than it would be wise to get on the phone and get the most you can for him. Unlike what the Wolves did with Pek and KMart.
Yeah, his numbers aren't dramatically up and he is very much the same player to what we saw as a rookie. But there has indeed been incremental improvements in certain areas of his game. We should also recognize that he was a very good rookie.
As for trading him, the question is what do we get in return and who then plays PG? Anyone who believes he's an addition by subtraction type player hasn't been paying attention for the past 5 years.
After 5 years are you okay with incremental parts of his game being better? Especially non that show up on the stat sheet?
As I've mentioned, if you deem this his best year you trade him for wh@whatever you can get (Norel maybe?) And get Dunn in the draft.
Dunn
Wiggins
Shabazz
KAT
Norel
Henk Norel you say? Don't we already own his rights?
Kris Dunn certainly looks good on paper, but do we really want to fritter away another year as this team helps a rookie starter get potty-trained?
We could have Dunn AND Rubio. And if Dunn at some point overtakes Rubio, then we have options.
Sorry, meant Noel. Lol My bad!
I feel like we're already frittering away years with our current PG situation. If your still hoping Ricky gets better next year than you agree we're wasting time. IMO
PorkChop wrote:Ppg, rebs, stls, asst, blks are virtually all unchanged and this is his career year? Not exactly setting the bar high for a guy that continues to be the leader of team that wins at a sub .350 clip.
It feels like fans have been losing for so long that their expectation of whats good has really lowered.
If this is truly Rickys career year like you say than it would be wise to get on the phone and get the most you can for him. Unlike what the Wolves did with Pek and KMart.
Yeah, his numbers aren't dramatically up and he is very much the same player to what we saw as a rookie. But there has indeed been incremental improvements in certain areas of his game. We should also recognize that he was a very good rookie.
As for trading him, the question is what do we get in return and who then plays PG? Anyone who believes he's an addition by subtraction type player hasn't been paying attention for the past 5 years.
After 5 years are you okay with incremental parts of his game being better? Especially non that show up on the stat sheet?
As I've mentioned, if you deem this his best year you trade him for wh@whatever you can get (Norel maybe?) And get Dunn in the draft.
Dunn
Wiggins
Shabazz
KAT
Norel
Henk Norel you say? Don't we already own his rights?
Kris Dunn certainly looks good on paper, but do we really want to fritter away another year as this team helps a rookie starter get potty-trained?
We could have Dunn AND Rubio. And if Dunn at some point overtakes Rubio, then we have options.
Sorry, meant Noel. Lol My bad!
I feel like we're already frittering away years with our current PG situation. If your still hoping Ricky gets better next year than you agree we're wasting time. IMO
Ricky doesn't need to get better - it's everyone else that does. He's not supposed to be our superstar - we have the last two #1 picks that are supposed to fulfill that role. What I don't want to do is have guys like Wiggins, Towns, etc. take a step forward next year only to take two steps back as a team because we have a rookie PG at the helm.
I'm not against drafting Dunn if he's the best player on the board when we draft. Let him push Rubio in the years that follow and perhaps he eventually is the better player.
PorkChop wrote:Ppg, rebs, stls, asst, blks are virtually all unchanged and this is his career year? Not exactly setting the bar high for a guy that continues to be the leader of team that wins at a sub .350 clip.
It feels like fans have been losing for so long that their expectation of whats good has really lowered.
If this is truly Rickys career year like you say than it would be wise to get on the phone and get the most you can for him. Unlike what the Wolves did with Pek and KMart.
Yeah, his numbers aren't dramatically up and he is very much the same player to what we saw as a rookie. But there has indeed been incremental improvements in certain areas of his game. We should also recognize that he was a very good rookie.
As for trading him, the question is what do we get in return and who then plays PG? Anyone who believes he's an addition by subtraction type player hasn't been paying attention for the past 5 years.
After 5 years are you okay with incremental parts of his game being better? Especially non that show up on the stat sheet?
As I've mentioned, if you deem this his best year you trade him for wh@whatever you can get (Norel maybe?) And get Dunn in the draft.
Dunn
Wiggins
Shabazz
KAT
Norel
Henk Norel you say? Don't we already own his rights?
Kris Dunn certainly looks good on paper, but do we really want to fritter away another year as this team helps a rookie starter get potty-trained?
We could have Dunn AND Rubio. And if Dunn at some point overtakes Rubio, then we have options.
Sorry, meant Noel. Lol My bad!
I feel like we're already frittering away years with our current PG situation. If your still hoping Ricky gets better next year than you agree we're wasting time. IMO
Ricky doesn't need to get better - it's everyone else that does. He's not supposed to be our superstar - we have the last two #1 picks that are supposed to fulfill that role. What I don't want to do is have guys like Wiggins, Towns, etc. take a step forward next year only to take two steps back as a team because we have a rookie PG at the helm.
I'm not against drafting Dunn if he's the best player on the board when we draft. Let him push Rubio in the years that follow and perhaps he eventually is the better player.
Well I respectfully disagree with the idea that our PG position doesnt need to be better. I don't think we need a superstar but a PG that shoots 42% and scores 14 -15 a game is necessary . Every other legitimate team has that guy .
If we want to reinvent what it takes to be a winner you start with a LeBron or Steph type . You can't start with the skills of a Ricky and say "hey league we're gonna prove you wrong"!
Rubio earned a large contract to be more than a Brevin Knight sort of PG. He didn't get that contract by resting on the laurels of his first 4 seasons. The Wolves were hoping he hadn't reached his promise.
Incremental improvement? I really don't know what that means. Is it the same as "marginal" or "negligible?"
Of course the entire team needs to get better. They just lost to a depleted Dallas Mavericks team with Towns going off for 28/17/6. And that includes Ricky Rubio.
I know we're accustomed to mediocrity and losing and sheer ineptitude. But after 5 years of average PG play... and staring down 3 more years of the same type of play (when that style has not proven to be effective in today's NBA)... I have reservations. I don't know how a person couldn't.
The thing is... you can't just give Rubio away. He isn't a bad player. He's just flawed and very polarizing. As I've noted, the market for him could be a lot smaller than we realize. Many teams wouldn't even consider him.
[Note: I'm ok with him sticking around. But I wouldn't dare think "we're set at the point" let's look elsewhere. The Wolves should be actively pursuing better options there if they present themselves.]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Rubio earned a large contract to be more than a Brevin Knight sort of PG. He didn't get that contract by resting on the laurels of his first 4 seasons. The Wolves were hoping he hadn't reached his promise.
Incremental improvement? I really don't know what that means. Is it the same as "marginal" or "negligible?"
Of course the entire team needs to get better. They just lost to a depleted Dallas Mavericks team with Towns going off for 28/17/6. And that includes Ricky Rubio.
I know we're accustomed to mediocrity and losing and sheer ineptitude. But after 5 years of average PG play... and staring down 3 more years of the same type of play (when that style has not proven to be effective in today's NBA)... I have reservations. I don't know how a person couldn't.
The thing is... you can't just give Rubio away. He isn't a bad player. He's just flawed and very polarizing. As I've noted, the market for him could be a lot smaller than we realize. Many teams wouldn't even consider him.
[Note: I'm ok with him sticking around. But I wouldn't dare think "we're set at the point" let's look elsewhere. The Wolves should be actively pursuing better options there if they present themselves.]
I've argued for a couple years he'd make a helluva backup pg. If we could talk him into that role if Dunn becomes our best option that would be ideal. But Ricky wants to be the man . Altho you'd never know it by the shots he passes up!
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Rubio earned a large contract to be more than a Brevin Knight sort of PG. He didn't get that contract by resting on the laurels of his first 4 seasons. The Wolves were hoping he hadn't reached his promise.
Incremental improvement? I really don't know what that means. Is it the same as "marginal" or "negligible?"
Of course the entire team needs to get better. They just lost to a depleted Dallas Mavericks team with Towns going off for 28/17/6. And that includes Ricky Rubio.
I know we're accustomed to mediocrity and losing and sheer ineptitude. But after 5 years of average PG play... and staring down 3 more years of the same type of play (when that style has not proven to be effective in today's NBA)... I have reservations. I don't know how a person couldn't.
The thing is... you can't just give Rubio away. He isn't a bad player. He's just flawed and very polarizing. As I've noted, the market for him could be a lot smaller than we realize. Many teams wouldn't even consider him.
[Note: I'm ok with him sticking around. But I wouldn't dare think "we're set at the point" let's look elsewhere. The Wolves should be actively pursuing better options there if they present themselves.]
I've argued for a couple years he'd make a helluva backup pg. If we could talk him into that role if Dunn becomes our best option that would be ideal. But Ricky wants to be the man . Altho you'd never know it by the shots he passes up!
i understand that cap is going up, but still 15 mil per year is pretty steep price for backup PG :-)
I am just going to say it....I am SICK of Ricky Rubio. Watching our collapse at the end of the game just reminded me why this guy is so overrated. Several times during the Dallas comeback, Ricky had opportunities to either get to the basket or take very easy 15 foot jumpers. In every case, many times with the clock winding down, he gets to an open spot and then kicks it out leaving our young guys in a lurch. He is simply worthless in the closing minutes of a game because he is simply unwilling to take or make a shot in any situation that matters. Does he do some things well....yep. But his unwillingness/inability to shoot is catastrophic to this team in virtually every critical time of a game. He is a HUGE part of why this team continues to blow double digit leads game after game. And the thing is.....he is absolutely done growing as a player. Nothing changes year in - year out. He is a moderate PG who now makes too much money.
I am at least encouraged by the uptick in statistics. Many of us agree that Ricky passes the eye test and we know he is valuable beyond statistics. We have been saying for years that he will benefit from having better players around him and I do not think it is a "superstar" mentality to try and address that. Many of us want him to be the point guard when this team makes the playoffs. We also know that we cannot afford to keep turning over the roster and starting over.
Ricky will benefit from volume scorers (hopefully Wiggins and KAT on consistent levels), but he needs a 'lights-out' shooter to help spread the floor. That is why I suggested Ryan Anderson earlier in the year. Wiggins and KAT will continue to improve, as will Ricky (even if it is small increases). This team has a long way to go and it will take some personnel changes, but I still think Ricky can be the guy to take us there.
kurrdog53 wrote:I am at least encouraged by the uptick in statistics. Many of us agree that Ricky passes the eye test and we know he is valuable beyond statistics. We have been saying for years that he will benefit from having better players around him and I do not think it is a "superstar" mentality to try and address that. Many of us want him to be the point guard when this team makes the playoffs. We also know that we cannot afford to keep turning over the roster and starting over.
Ricky will benefit from volume scorers (hopefully Wiggins and KAT on consistent levels), but he needs a 'lights-out' shooter to help spread the floor. That is why I suggested Ryan Anderson earlier in the year. Wiggins and KAT will continue to improve, as will Ricky (even if it is small increases). This team has a long way to go and it will take some personnel changes, but I still think Ricky can be the guy to take us there.
1. Any "small improvement" is negligible. 10.1 apg vs. 10.0? .494 TS% vs. .491? 2.9 TO vs. 3.0? People are seeing "improvement" in those numbers. I see status quo... especially since those "improved" stats can be framed with stats that show a slight decline.
2. Rubio did play with a volume scorer. (Love averaged 26.1 ppg). And a shooter to help spread the floor (Martin at 19.1 ppg) and even Pekovic for 2/3 of the season (17.5 ppg). Outside of an improvement in field goal percentage over the final month of the season, Rubio's stats are right on par with every other season in his career. Even lower in spots.
