Shabazz Muhammed - A bright spot in a dismal run?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I dig where Muhammad is shooting those threes... 22 feet away in the corners where MANY NBA players shoot a higher percentage.

It's also been one of the highlights of Tyus Jones thus far. He drives and kicks it out to Muhammad for the open look.

More please.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Everyone saying Bazz fits this team, I don't see how. What does this team lack? 3pt shooting, defense and good ball movers. Bazz is none of those. He's a short 3 who plays like a 4. If anything, we should be having him bulk up and play exclusively small ball 4 because that's the only way he would fit this team. Bench scorers are a dime a dozen and the way he plays doesn't help make the lives of those around him any easier because he's not a big enough 3pt threat, has little handle and almost never moves the ball. Look at the other 3's on the roster. Wiggins=volume scorer and good defender. Prince=good defender and good ball mover. Rudez=good 3pt shooter. Bazz=volume scorer. Who's the overlapping piece of those 4? Meanwhile at the 2 we have Lavine=good 3pt shooter and volume scorer. Martin=volume scorer and good 3pt shooter. What's missing there? No defense. So if we can flip Bazz or Martin or both for a 3 and D guy then you do it because that's the piece this wing rotation doesn't have. All of Bazz's positives are overlapping with other guys who do more than he does. Why is he the guy we should be building around on the second unit? Shouldn't we be building around the more versatile guys who check more than 1 box so our second unit isn't so heavily flawed? This team needs an efficient perimeter scorer, but he's got to stretch the defense and also play defense.

I haven't watched many games lately, but I think Prince would be a far better player for the second unit next to Tyus and Lavine than Bazz would be. Hell, I think Ricky/Lavine/Wiggins and Tyus/Martin/Prince would be the best rotation on the perimeter leaving Bazz out all together because he just doesn't fit next to anyone including Wiggins anymore because Wiggins just doesn't stretch the floor enough on offense and I think that's reflected in Bazz's +/- numbers this year. Anything he brings offensively is overcome by the defensive issues we have when he's on the court combined with the rest of the offense not being a good fit around his skill set. He's the one wing I would say doesn't fit on this roster based on what he brings to the table not meshing well with what everyone else brings.

Clearly you haven't been watching the games lately. Bazz is becoming our best 3 pt shooter after an off first month shooting. There are far greater flaws on the 2nd unit than Bazz.

He's averaged 1.4 or 1.5 3pt attempts per game for the past 3 months. I don't care if you shoot 90% from 3. If that's all the 3's you are taking per game, you aren't any three point threat the defense has to stick to. Let me know when he gets above 2 per game and then we'll talk about his 3pt prowess.

So you're punishing him for making the threes that the system gives him? I don't get it. No one gets above 2 per game on this team so by your logic we can not call anyone a good or bad 3 pt shooter because we don't shoot enough. So why say he can't shoot 3s in the first place?

We actually have 5 players on the team averaging more than 2 attempts per game (4 if you take out Martin because he's not playing) and the highest percentage guy is Bjelica at 34%. So why can't Bazz get to 2 a game if 2 of his teammates coming off the bench with him do it (Lavine and Bjelica)? Tyus is a 50% 3pt shooter, but he only takes 0.4 per game. See how there needs to be some kind of volume behind a good shooting percentage to matter? Towns is a 36% shooter, but only takes 0.8 per game. Payne is a 44% 3pt shooter on 0.7 per game. Rudez is a 45% shooter on 1.5 per game. There are plenty of guys on this team who are better 3pt shooters than Bazz and all of them just like Bazz don't take enough 3's to make the defense have to adjust. So no, his 3pt shooting doesn't matter until he puts real volume behind it.

[thedoper]

Everyone saying Bazz fits this team, I don't see how. What does this team lack? 3pt shooting, defense and good ball movers. Bazz is none of those. He's a short 3 who plays like a 4. If anything, we should be having him bulk up and play exclusively small ball 4 because that's the only way he would fit this team. Bench scorers are a dime a dozen and the way he plays doesn't help make the lives of those around him any easier because he's not a big enough 3pt threat, has little handle and almost never moves the ball. Look at the other 3's on the roster. Wiggins=volume scorer and good defender. Prince=good defender and good ball mover. Rudez=good 3pt shooter. Bazz=volume scorer. Who's the overlapping piece of those 4? Meanwhile at the 2 we have Lavine=good 3pt shooter and volume scorer. Martin=volume scorer and good 3pt shooter. What's missing there? No defense. So if we can flip Bazz or Martin or both for a 3 and D guy then you do it because that's the piece this wing rotation doesn't have. All of Bazz's positives are overlapping with other guys who do more than he does. Why is he the guy we should be building around on the second unit? Shouldn't we be building around the more versatile guys who check more than 1 box so our second unit isn't so heavily flawed? This team needs an efficient perimeter scorer, but he's got to stretch the defense and also play defense.

I haven't watched many games lately, but I think Prince would be a far better player for the second unit next to Tyus and Lavine than Bazz would be. Hell, I think Ricky/Lavine/Wiggins and Tyus/Martin/Prince would be the best rotation on the perimeter leaving Bazz out all together because he just doesn't fit next to anyone including Wiggins anymore because Wiggins just doesn't stretch the floor enough on offense and I think that's reflected in Bazz's +/- numbers this year. Anything he brings offensively is overcome by the defensive issues we have when he's on the court combined with the rest of the offense not being a good fit around his skill set. He's the one wing I would say doesn't fit on this roster based on what he brings to the table not meshing well with what everyone else brings.

Clearly you haven't been watching the games lately. Bazz is becoming our best 3 pt shooter after an off first month shooting. There are far greater flaws on the 2nd unit than Bazz.

He's averaged 1.4 or 1.5 3pt attempts per game for the past 3 months. I don't care if you shoot 90% from 3. If that's all the 3's you are taking per game, you aren't any three point threat the defense has to stick to. Let me know when he gets above 2 per game and then we'll talk about his 3pt prowess.

So you're punishing him for making the threes that the system gives him? I don't get it. No one gets above 2 per game on this team so by your logic we can not call anyone a good or bad 3 pt shooter because we don't shoot enough. So why say he can't shoot 3s in the first place?

We actually have 5 players on the team averaging more than 2 attempts per game (4 if you take out Martin because he's not playing) and the highest percentage guy is Bjelica at 34%. So why can't Bazz get to 2 a game if 2 of his teammates coming off the bench with him do it (Lavine and Bjelica)? Tyus is a 50% 3pt shooter, but he only takes 0.4 per game. See how there needs to be some kind of volume behind a good shooting percentage to matter? Towns is a 36% shooter, but only takes 0.8 per game. Payne is a 44% 3pt shooter on 0.7 per game. Rudez is a 45% shooter on 1.5 per game. There are plenty of guys on this team who are better 3pt shooters than Bazz and all of them just like Bazz don't take enough 3's to make the defense have to adjust. So no, his 3pt shooting doesn't matter until he puts real volume behind it.

Again then if it doesn't matter why call him a bad 3 pt shooter?

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I get the critics saying Bazz isn't necessarily a well-rounded player who sometimes contributes and sometimes doesn't, but isn't that almost the exact same description as LaVine, who gets a good amount of love on this board?

I'm torn on both guys. LaVine has the higher potential, but he hurts us more on the floor than Bazz because his decision-making is so god-awful. I love Bazz's energy, but he is really unidimensional, and doesn't really fit the team concept. LaVine was playing well for awhile, but now sucks again. Bazz is going through a pretty good stretch, but he's never been consistent. To me, both are players who we really can't count on. If one or both develops, great. But if the right trade opportunity came along, I'd move one or both of them, depending on what we get back.

To me, one of the bright spots of the season that nobody's really talking about is Dieng. I don't get why he doesn't get more praise on this board. Somebody (who shall remain nameless) even said he can't shoot, but he's our best shooter, and was the best midrange shooter in the entire league last year! He still makes mistakes on D, but overall, he makes up for it with more nice defensive plays than bad ones. He may not be an ideal fit next to Towns at the 4 and 5 (I'm glad about Pek maybe coming back, if he can be anything like he used to be), but Dieng has been good for us this year.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I'm not sure we need Muhammed to be a high-volume 3-point shooter to be effective. Simply being a consistent threat is good 'nuff for me since I think he also has a ton of value on basket cuts, and left-box post ups too. The key term here is "consistent" threat, which means hopefully maintaining the type of pace he's been on over the last few games.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Everyone saying Bazz fits this team, I don't see how. What does this team lack? 3pt shooting, defense and good ball movers. Bazz is none of those. He's a short 3 who plays like a 4. If anything, we should be having him bulk up and play exclusively small ball 4 because that's the only way he would fit this team. Bench scorers are a dime a dozen and the way he plays doesn't help make the lives of those around him any easier because he's not a big enough 3pt threat, has little handle and almost never moves the ball. Look at the other 3's on the roster. Wiggins=volume scorer and good defender. Prince=good defender and good ball mover. Rudez=good 3pt shooter. Bazz=volume scorer. Who's the overlapping piece of those 4? Meanwhile at the 2 we have Lavine=good 3pt shooter and volume scorer. Martin=volume scorer and good 3pt shooter. What's missing there? No defense. So if we can flip Bazz or Martin or both for a 3 and D guy then you do it because that's the piece this wing rotation doesn't have. All of Bazz's positives are overlapping with other guys who do more than he does. Why is he the guy we should be building around on the second unit? Shouldn't we be building around the more versatile guys who check more than 1 box so our second unit isn't so heavily flawed? This team needs an efficient perimeter scorer, but he's got to stretch the defense and also play defense.

I haven't watched many games lately, but I think Prince would be a far better player for the second unit next to Tyus and Lavine than Bazz would be. Hell, I think Ricky/Lavine/Wiggins and Tyus/Martin/Prince would be the best rotation on the perimeter leaving Bazz out all together because he just doesn't fit next to anyone including Wiggins anymore because Wiggins just doesn't stretch the floor enough on offense and I think that's reflected in Bazz's +/- numbers this year. Anything he brings offensively is overcome by the defensive issues we have when he's on the court combined with the rest of the offense not being a good fit around his skill set. He's the one wing I would say doesn't fit on this roster based on what he brings to the table not meshing well with what everyone else brings.

Clearly you haven't been watching the games lately. Bazz is becoming our best 3 pt shooter after an off first month shooting. There are far greater flaws on the 2nd unit than Bazz.

He's averaged 1.4 or 1.5 3pt attempts per game for the past 3 months. I don't care if you shoot 90% from 3. If that's all the 3's you are taking per game, you aren't any three point threat the defense has to stick to. Let me know when he gets above 2 per game and then we'll talk about his 3pt prowess.

So you're punishing him for making the threes that the system gives him? I don't get it. No one gets above 2 per game on this team so by your logic we can not call anyone a good or bad 3 pt shooter because we don't shoot enough. So why say he can't shoot 3s in the first place?

We actually have 5 players on the team averaging more than 2 attempts per game (4 if you take out Martin because he's not playing) and the highest percentage guy is Bjelica at 34%. So why can't Bazz get to 2 a game if 2 of his teammates coming off the bench with him do it (Lavine and Bjelica)? Tyus is a 50% 3pt shooter, but he only takes 0.4 per game. See how there needs to be some kind of volume behind a good shooting percentage to matter? Towns is a 36% shooter, but only takes 0.8 per game. Payne is a 44% 3pt shooter on 0.7 per game. Rudez is a 45% shooter on 1.5 per game. There are plenty of guys on this team who are better 3pt shooters than Bazz and all of them just like Bazz don't take enough 3's to make the defense have to adjust. So no, his 3pt shooting doesn't matter until he puts real volume behind it.

Again then if it doesn't matter why call him a bad 3 pt shooter?

Please feel free to point out where I said Bazz was a bad 3pt shooter. I've consistently said his 3pt volume is not enough to be considered a threat the defense has to worry about regardless of his percentage. You want to argue he's been one of our best 3pt shooters based on percentage and I gave you multiple guys who are shooting better than him. You can't have it both ways. He's a non-consequential 3pt shooter. That's all that matters. Until his volume goes up and his percentage doesn't drop he will continue to be a non-consequential 3pt shooter. We're a terrible 3pt shooting team because we have no consequential 3pt shooters. The high volume guys shoot the lower percentages and the high percentage guys don't shoot enough to matter.

[thedoper]

Please feel free to point out where I said Bazz was a bad 3pt shooter. I've consistently said his 3pt volume is not enough to be considered a threat the defense has to worry about regardless of his percentage. You want to argue he's been one of our best 3pt shooters based on percentage and I gave you multiple guys who are shooting better than him. You can't have it both ways. He's a non-consequential 3pt shooter. That's all that matters. Until his volume goes up and his percentage doesn't drop he will continue to be a non-consequential 3pt shooter. We're a terrible 3pt shooting team because we have no consequential 3pt shooters. The high volume guys shoot the lower percentages and the high percentage guys don't shoot enough to matter.

You're right, you never said he was bad in those exact words so my apologies for misrepresenting your words. I still can't follow your volume argument. Attempts per game is not volume. He is 5th in attempts per 100 possessions. He shoots 3 at a way higher volume then Tyus and KAT. If anything he should be commended for taking what the D gives him unlike Belly or Lavine who shoot at a higher volume and a lower percentage. The only point that I am making consistently is that Bazz is starting to make 3s at a good clip and is improving his percentage as a result. This means he is becoming one of our best 3 pt shooters and should be taking more of those corner 3s where he seems to be developing an affinity. As expected, his game is developing as he gets more minutes. Since getting more minutes he has been hitting corner 3s at a great percentage at an average volume.

[TeamRicky [enjin:6648771]]

I get the critics saying Bazz isn't necessarily a well-rounded player who sometimes contributes and sometimes doesn't, but isn't that almost the exact same description as LaVine, who gets a good amount of love on this board?

I'm torn on both guys. LaVine has the higher potential, but he hurts us more on the floor than Bazz because his decision-making is so god-awful. I love Bazz's energy, but he is really unidimensional, and doesn't really fit the team concept. LaVine was playing well for awhile, but now sucks again. Bazz is going through a pretty good stretch, but he's never been consistent. To me, both are players who we really can't count on. If one or both develops, great. But if the right trade opportunity came along, I'd move one or both of them, depending on what we get back.

To me, one of the bright spots of the season that nobody's really talking about is Dieng. I don't get why he doesn't get more praise on this board. Somebody (who shall remain nameless) even said he can't shoot, but he's our best shooter, and was the best midrange shooter in the entire league last year! He still makes mistakes on D, but overall, he makes up for it with more nice defensive plays than bad ones. He may not be an ideal fit next to Towns at the 4 and 5 (I'm glad about Pek maybe coming back, if he can be anything like he used to be), but Dieng has been good for us this year.

Bazz is 23 and Lavine is 20. LaVine is incredibly athletic and is still adding muscle to his frame. Bazz has average athleticism and his body is already developed. LaVine has been having to adjust to play two different positions. I think the upside of LaVine is much higher than Bazz.

[Monster]

A few things about Bazz I've noticed lately.

His lateral movement on D looks better. Various times he has had to guard combo or PGs and he has been able to stay in front of them decently. His team defense is a little better. His really bad D is when he has to get through screens and such but that's better than it was earlier in the year. He is far from good on that end but I have seen some progress.

What Bazz adds to this team is one guy that gives you some toughness. He plays hard mixes it up for rebounds etc. he is one guy that doesn't just get pushed around unlike most everyone else. About the only other perimeter player on this team that isn't weak like that is Andre Miller.

Bazz does need to hit 3's for more than 30 or so games and yeah he needs a higher count but he also needs someone to pass him the ball.

I can see Bazz ending up being a somewhat unique Pek-like value player down the line where if you use him right he can be very effective especially if he has the right guy(s) next to him. He has a long way to go but I'd like to see him stick around.