Rubio having a career year statistically

[Monster]

Lots of interesting stuff here. I'll point out that the Sixers are 5-8 since acquiring Ish Smith and he isn't shooting the ball at a high percentage but is scoring and assisting at a really nice rate. It's probably not sustanable but it's certainly worth noting in all this conversation. Also that recent loss to the Sixers doesn't look quite as bad as it did at the time.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lots of interesting stuff here. I'll point out that the Sixers are 5-8 since acquiring Ish Smith and he isn't shooting the ball at a high percentage but is scoring and assisting at a really nice rate. It's probably not sustanable but it's certainly worth noting in all this conversation. Also that recent loss to the Sixers doesn't look quite as bad as it did at the time.

Just having one professional-quality player can make quite the difference sometimes.

Check out Nerlens Noel stats (and quotes) since Smith arrived. I think it's good for that organization to see that things aren't bleak ALL THE TIME. They're still going to be in the hunt for lottery balls without making a mockery of another season.

[MikkeMan]

Interesting stats Mikk... but I think it's important to remember we have to add everything up collectively. For example, seeing guys like Westbrook and Butler on a list could make somebody stop and think... "Hey, see... it's not so bad." I didn't even see FG% listed. I know some think it's an outdated stat... but I think it has legit relevance.

But both of those guys are SOOOOO good at other kinds of shooting. For example, Butler is shooting 45% overall with a TS% of .567. Westbrook is at 45.3% and .553. I chuckle when Westbrook's success is STILL attributed to Durant. (The general public's perception of those two remains a fascinating topic for another time. Westbrook's PER is at 29.3 right now for chrissakes!). Danny Green sticks out like a sore thumb on SA. He's skating by on his past successes... for now. We'll see how long that lasts. Along with that... he's a low-usage part-time player. He's playing about half a game and will be playing less than that in the playoffs (even as every lineup's 5th option) if he can't improve his shooting.

So, basically... very few guys in this league (sans S. Curry) kick ass at shooting from nearly everywhere. Rubio and Mudiay lead the charge at sucking at shooting from almost everywhere (Rubio remains a plus at the line). Put Wiggins next to him... and add at least one non-shooter (Prince), and the issue escalates.

Yes, both Westbrook and Butler are elite in getting to free throw line and at least good at finishing at rim. Thus their overall efficiency is still in good level. But I'm sure that Oklahoma offense wouldn't be elite level with back court Westbrook - Roberson if they wouldn't have very good shooters at forward position in Durant and Ibaka (both are currently in top 15 jump shooters). Westbrook might be more important overall because of his defense and ability to get to the rim but Durant is the player that makes their offense lethal.

I also found it interesting that Chicago has been that bad in offense. In addition of Butler, they have Gasol, Mirotic and McDermott all whom should be good offensive players. I think that lack of outside shooting from back court has for example affected Gasol's offense so that he cannot be used as much in low post than before.

BTW. If Wiggins could be as efficient offensive player than Butler if he would improve in three things:
- If he would improve to as good free throw shooting to Butlers level (this alone would increase his TS% to 54.0)
- If his free throw rate would improve same level than Butler (might happen without much improvement if referees start to whistle fouls to opponents little more as Wiggins stardom increases. This in addition to 1. item would already increase his TS% to 54.8)
- If he would increase the amount of three point shots and decrease same time the amount of long two point jumpers to have similar division than Butler has. (with this year stats, this wouldn't affect much but if we use Wiggins career stats, this in addition of points 1&2 would increase his TS% to 55.6)

[AbeVigodaLive]

Interesting stats Mikk... but I think it's important to remember we have to add everything up collectively. For example, seeing guys like Westbrook and Butler on a list could make somebody stop and think... "Hey, see... it's not so bad." I didn't even see FG% listed. I know some think it's an outdated stat... but I think it has legit relevance.

But both of those guys are SOOOOO good at other kinds of shooting. For example, Butler is shooting 45% overall with a TS% of .567. Westbrook is at 45.3% and .553. I chuckle when Westbrook's success is STILL attributed to Durant. (The general public's perception of those two remains a fascinating topic for another time. Westbrook's PER is at 29.3 right now for chrissakes!). Danny Green sticks out like a sore thumb on SA. He's skating by on his past successes... for now. We'll see how long that lasts. Along with that... he's a low-usage part-time player. He's playing about half a game and will be playing less than that in the playoffs (even as every lineup's 5th option) if he can't improve his shooting.

So, basically... very few guys in this league (sans S. Curry) kick ass at shooting from nearly everywhere. Rubio and Mudiay lead the charge at sucking at shooting from almost everywhere (Rubio remains a plus at the line). Put Wiggins next to him... and add at least one non-shooter (Prince), and the issue escalates.

Yes, both Westbrook and Butler are elite in getting to free throw line and at least good at finishing at rim. Thus their overall efficiency is still in good level. But I'm sure that Oklahoma offense wouldn't be elite level with back court Westbrook - Roberson if they wouldn't have very good shooters at forward position in Durant and Ibaka (both are currently in top 15 jump shooters). Westbrook might be more important overall because of his defense and ability to get to the rim but Durant is the player that makes their offense lethal.

I also found it interesting that Chicago has been that bad in offense. In addition of Butler, they have Gasol, Mirotic and McDermott all whom should be good offensive players. I think that lack of outside shooting from back court has for example affected Gasol's offense so that he cannot be used as much in low post than before.

BTW. If Wiggins could be as efficient offensive player than Butler if he would improve in three things:
- If he would improve to as good free throw shooting to Butlers level (this alone would increase his TS% to 54.0)
- If his free throw rate would improve same level than Butler (might happen without much improvement if referees start to whistle fouls to opponents little more as Wiggins stardom increases. This in addition to 1. item would already increase his TS% to 54.8)
- If he would increase the amount of three point shots and decrease same time the amount of long two point jumpers to have similar division than Butler has. (with this year stats, this wouldn't affect much but if we use Wiggins career stats, this in addition of points 1&2 would increase his TS% to 55.6)

I wasn't trying to knock Durant at all. Like Nowitzki, everything offensively orbits around them even when they don't touch the ball.

I just get amused by the same narrative that pops up from time to time that Westbrook is a problem... or doesn't help Durant. (I know you weren't saying it, I was going off on a tangent.)

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lots of interesting stuff here. I'll point out that the Sixers are 5-8 since acquiring Ish Smith and he isn't shooting the ball at a high percentage but is scoring and assisting at a really nice rate. It's probably not sustanable but it's certainly worth noting in all this conversation. Also that recent loss to the Sixers doesn't look quite as bad as it did at the time.

Just having one professional-quality player can make quite the difference sometimes.

Check out Nerlens Noel stats (and quotes) since Smith arrived. I think it's good for that organization to see that things aren't bleak ALL THE TIME. They're still going to be in the hunt for lottery balls without making a mockery of another season.

If you look at Philly, their offense has definitely taken a tick up over the past 15-20 games, while their defense has been about the same. If you look at Minnesota, the opposite has happened. Month by month, they have become progressively worse on offense and about the same on defense.

It's stunning to me that Philly is a better team than the Wolves right now, but that is indeed the case.

[Monster]

Lots of interesting stuff here. I'll point out that the Sixers are 5-8 since acquiring Ish Smith and he isn't shooting the ball at a high percentage but is scoring and assisting at a really nice rate. It's probably not sustanable but it's certainly worth noting in all this conversation. Also that recent loss to the Sixers doesn't look quite as bad as it did at the time.

Just having one professional-quality player can make quite the difference sometimes.

Check out Nerlens Noel stats (and quotes) since Smith arrived. I think it's good for that organization to see that things aren't bleak ALL THE TIME. They're still going to be in the hunt for lottery balls without making a mockery of another season.

If you look at Philly, their offense has definitely taken a tick up over the past 15-20 games, while their defense has been about the same. If you look at Minnesota, the opposite has happened. Month by month, they have become progressively worse on offense and about the same on defense.

It's stunning to me that Philly is a better team than the Wolves right now, but that is indeed the case.

Ish Smith for MVP?

I'll admit I wasn't a fan of the trade at the time but the early returns are pretty good. If nothing else if they resign him to a decent deal it may be worth giving up some 2nd round picks just to make a guy like Noel stick around which at some point has to be something to be worried about. The bottom line is if Ish Smith stays around and becomes even Luke Ridnour level of impact player it was a pretty solid deal to make.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

I was looking for a link for 4th quarter scoring. Anybody know where we can get that?

NBA.com

He's 16-54 in the 4th quarter and has made 3 3's total in the 4th, a FG% of 29%

He's got 3 FG's made total in Jan( all in that NO game). Take that game away, and he hasn't had a FG in the 4th in a month(only 6 made FG in Dec)

But hey Ricky's a winner and we all know winners turn it up in the 4th quarter

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

Sorry, I have to agree with Q here. Rubio's not the problem. He is what he is -- an excellent defender, rebounder, foul shooter and playmaker at his position. Unfortunately, he's a terrible shooter, although he does have potential to become a decent set three-point shooter. But as Q said, the key to this team going forward is the development of our young guys with star or superstar potential, namely KAT and Wiggins as well as LaVine and Bazz. What all four of these guys have in common is that they are all scorers. Then there's Belly who is also a scorer/shooter. KAT, LaVine and Belly all have the potential to be good three-point shooters. Bazz could become a decent 3-point shooter and even Wiggins might get there. And we can always pick up or trade for a 3-point shooting specialist to work into our rotation down the road.

In other words, we have plenty of scorers among our young core. The just need to develop their core scoring/shooting skills or, put another way, become better at what they naturally do. So we clearly have a roster that can flourish with a playmaking defensive-oriented PG like Ricky. I was disappointed in Ricky's missed shots late in last night's game. But how Bazz missing all those wide-open looks late in the forth quarter? As a scorer, he needs to hit those shots. And getting the great looks he got was largely attributable to the playmaking of Ricky. Or how about Pek missing several bunnies as he went 2-7 from the field? A 6'11 center missing point-blank lay ups in the paint is a problem. And guess who typically got Pek those easy shots he missed?

We had a scoring PG playing for us last season. His name was Moe Williams. How did that go? The fate of this franchise going forward will turn on the development of our young core, especially two top draft picks, KAT and Wiggins. I understand the frustration with Ricky, but he should be the least of our concerns.

Well even considering that your trying to compare Rubio to Mo Williams to make it seem like you need a "passing" PG instead of a "shooting" PG, and you pick the bottom of the barrel of shooting PG in Mo Williams, Ill still tell ya.

Wolves last year 22nd in the league in scoring at 97.8

Wolves this year 22nd in the league in scoring at 98.9

So pretty much the same, expect when you consider last years team was destroyed by injuries and this year they have been pretty healthy

[Lipoli390]

Alex - I wasn't using the Mo comparison to demonstrate the need for a passing PG. That was a silly inference. I was just pointing out the reality that a scoring PG or a PG known for shooting doesn't necessarily make things better. Ricky makes us better defensively through his on-ball defense, steals and defensive rebounding. Oh, and as you pointed out, we're a point per game better offensively and that's under the coaching of offensive wizard Sam Mitchell.

I fully understand how Ricky's poor shooting is a drag on our offense. But you have to look at the whole package. If we replace Ricky it has to be a BETTER PG, based on the full set of skills and basketball IQ, not just a better scorer like, for example, Mo Williams.

And It's not like our roster is lacking in scorers with Wiggins, Towns, Bazz, LaVine, Martin and possibly Belly. We might be lacking in 3-point shooters, but even there it's hard to say given Sam's obvious failure to embrace that shot as a significant part of the offense.

[Porckchop]

Alex - I wasn't using the Mo comparison to demonstrate the need for a passing PG. That was a silly inference. I was just pointing out the reality that a scoring PG or a PG known for shooting doesn't necessarily make things better. Ricky makes us better defensively through his on-ball defense, steals and defensive rebounding. Oh, and as you pointed out, we're a point per game better offensively and that's under the coaching of offensive wizard Sam Mitchell.

I fully understand how Ricky's poor shooting is a drag on our offense. But you have to look at the whole package. If we replace Ricky it has to be a BETTER PG, based on the full set of skills and basketball IQ, not just a better scorer like, for example, Mo Williams.

And It's not like our roster is lacking in scorers with Wiggins, Towns, Bazz, LaVine, Martin and possibly Belly. We might be lacking in 3-point shooters, but even there it's hard to say given Sam's obvious failure to embrace that shot as a significant part of the offense.

Can we point to any teams that have had success with this kind of approach from their pg. I mean we're not having success with it currently.

I read recently that Ricky is second only to Curry in the amount of time the ball stays in his hands per possession. Talk about two guys on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Is wise to use this approach when he's so offenaive challenged? I mean, if I'm on defense the longer that ball stays in Ricky hands the better .