Fun trade talk via Britt Robson

[Monster]

Lavine and Rubio isn't enough to get Butler but the way lavine has played has made it much more possible than it was before the season started.

Britt actually clarified that he does not hate Lavine he actually thinks he has been very good he just see's Wiggins and Lavine making a bunch of money together not a workable championship formula.

LST I get the hand wringing about Lavine and even to a certain extent about Wiggins. As I said in the improvement thread of Bazz can learn to play D I feel pretty good about the other 2 talented wings on the Wolves figuring it out and Lavine and Wiggins are more physically gifted than Bazz is. It was around 14 months ago that a Bazz was an even worse perimeter defender than Lavine. Yes it was that bad and I am a fan of both guys.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Lavine and Rubio isn't enough to get Butler but the way lavine has played has made it much more possible than it was before the season started.

Britt actually clarified that he does not hate Lavine he actually thinks he has been very good he just see's Wiggins and Lavine making a bunch of money together not a workable championship formula.

LST I get the hand wringing about Lavine and even to a certain extent about Wiggins. As I said in the improvement thread of Bazz can learn to play D I feel pretty good about the other 2 talented wings on the Wolves figuring it out and Lavine and Wiggins are more physically gifted than Bazz is. It was around 14 months ago that a Bazz was an even worse perimeter defender than Lavine. Yes it was that bad and I am a fan of both guys.

Agreed. In fact, I was surprised that Robson thought it was enough.

Considering how much turmoil over the front office exists in Chicago at the moment... and the Thibs controversy still hanging over the organization... I don't see how that front office could even entertain any offer that wouldn't appease the fans.

LaVine + Rubio (or Dunn) + 2017 1st rd pick = Butler + filler (pick/player).

I'm not saying that I'd do that. But I don't see Chicago settling for anything less. Especially with Boston sitting there with everything it has to offer.



[Note: Remember, LaVine is a promising talent. And very young. But as of now, he's still a very hollow player with A LOT of improvement needed. Rubio would not start at PG for much of the league. With those question marks... the Bulls would have to get more to appease the fans about giving up a proven commodity.]

[TheFuture]

Something else to consider...

Jimmy Butler's #s relative to his age compared to LaVine and Wiggins.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.htmlJimmy

Vs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01.htmlAndrew

and

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.htmlZach

[AbeVigodaLive]

Something else to consider...

Jimmy Butler's #s relative to his age compared to LaVine and Wiggins.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.htmlJimmy

Vs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01.htmlAndrew

and

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.htmlZach

Maybe.

But as we've discussed before, improvement to Butler's level is not a foregone NBA conclusion for those guys. Heck, any improvement, even if expected or probable, isn't a given.

That's the rub with any trade of a young player. You can only go by the improvements the players have already made + perceived potential and figure out if it's worth the risk.

[TheFuture]

Something else to consider...

Jimmy Butler's #s relative to his age compared to LaVine and Wiggins.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.htmlJimmy

Vs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wiggian01.htmlAndrew

and

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.htmlZach

Maybe.

But as we've discussed before, improvement to Butler's level is not a foregone NBA conclusion for those guys. Heck, any improvement, even if expected or probable, isn't a given.

That's the rub with any trade of a young player. You can only go by the improvements the players have already made + perceived potential and figure out if it's worth the risk.

I'm simply arguing that our two 21 year old wings are putting up outstanding offensive numbers already. They are in a small category of players in history that have produced at this level at such an age. Butlers defensive rating was great when he was able to focus mostly on that side and played within a team defense that was arguably the best in the league for those years. Now that team has mostly been disassembled and that coach is now our coach. Since then, and now that butler carries a much larger offensive load, his defensive numbers have stumbled. I have no doubt that lavine and Wiggins will improve defensively by the time they are 24 and grow into their man bodies, and their offensive repertoires are far beyond what Butlers were, are, and will ever be. Just my opinion of course.

[TheFuture]

We are blessed with riches right now. 3 extremely promising young players who are about the same age and will enter their prime together. The new CBA also works in our favor as we have a very realistic chance of keeping them together for a long time. All 3 should be untouchable. Any other players/picks can be traded, but I believe it would be unwise to move any of the young 3.

Also, they all compliment each other very well. Towns all around game offensively, Wiggins iso/foul drawing, and LaVine with the beautiful 3pt stroke. You couldnt ask for more. We are impatient after 12 (likely 13) years of losing bball but our reward is on the horizon.

Personally, I believe(d) Dunn is the perfect fit at the 1. Superb defense, and get the ball to the offensive stars. We are a good defensive/scrappy starter level big away from being juggernauts.

[thedoper]

We are blessed with riches right now. 3 extremely promising young players who are about the same age and will enter their prime together. The new CBA also works in our favor as we have a very realistic chance of keeping them together for a long time. All 3 should be untouchable. Any other players/picks can be traded, but I believe it would be unwise to move any of the young 3.

Also, they all compliment each other very well. Towns all around game offensively, Wiggins iso/foul drawing, and LaVine with the beautiful 3pt stroke. You couldnt ask for more. We are impatient after 12 (likely 13) years of losing bball but our reward is on the horizon.

Personally, I believe(d) Dunn is the perfect fit at the 1. Superb defense, and get the ball to the offensive stars. We are a good defensive/scrappy starter level big away from being juggernauts.

We would be blessed with Riches with a core 3 of Wiggins, Towns, and Butler as well. Butler has a lot of good years in front of him, many of which will overlap with Towns and Wiggins peak. I think the trio with Butler is much more complimentary as Wiggins would move to the two. I don't think a move like this would be out of impatience, I think it would be a smart play to leverage assets to get even better both for the present and long term.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We are blessed with riches right now. 3 extremely promising young players who are about the same age and will enter their prime together. The new CBA also works in our favor as we have a very realistic chance of keeping them together for a long time. All 3 should be untouchable. Any other players/picks can be traded, but I believe it would be unwise to move any of the young 3.

Also, they all compliment each other very well. Towns all around game offensively, Wiggins iso/foul drawing, and LaVine with the beautiful 3pt stroke. You couldnt ask for more. We are impatient after 12 (likely 13) years of losing bball but our reward is on the horizon.

Personally, I believe(d) Dunn is the perfect fit at the 1. Superb defense, and get the ball to the offensive stars. We are a good defensive/scrappy starter level big away from being juggernauts.

Not so sure I agree with that. Yes, offensively, they all can do different things well when it comes to scoring. But here are a few areas where I feel LaVine and Wiggins are redundantly weak:

1. Defense - Neither are good defenders yet. You generally want one of your wings to be a stopper. Wiggins is currently the designated guy and he has his moments, but he's not even close to being a good team defender or elite individual defender. LaVine is even further behind.

2. Play making - Neither of these guys make advanced passes. They are very rudimentary in the types of passes they can make out of pick and roll. For example, I don't think I have ever seen either guy make a pocket pass.

3. The hustle/do shit stuff - This is unbelievable to me, but LaVine and Wiggins have collectively taken two charges in their 2.5 year career. Tyus Jones has drawn four charges....this year....while hardly even playing! Neither are great rebounders, ball thiefs, or shot blockers for their position. Neither are known for having a nose for the ball and coming up with contested loose balls.

I'm not suggesting we rashly break these two apart, because as you say, they are still very young. I think both will continue to improve in #1 and #2 above. But will it ever be a strength? Not so sure. The hustle/do shit stats to me is not something players suddenly get good at. You either have a nose for this stuff or you don't.

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

Butler is a very good player and certainly worth Ricky+Zach IMO. We can't trade our pick right now due to the ATL Payne trade.

I do wonder how he would fit here. His shooting next to Wigs/Rubio/Dunn would not be ideal. He would also assume he was the #1 option, which I think should remain KAT.

I have my worries about Zach too though. If he is still woeful on defense at the end of the year, they are going to have to consider his future here. Do they want to max Crawford v2.0?

Ideally you pair a shooter with Rubio/Dunn and Wigs. If not Zach, then maybe take a run at Cpt America from UTA and move Wiggs to SG?

[Monster]

Oh talk about Jimmy Butler again...I'm not sure there is much more to discuss that hasn't been discussed but I would be interested to see some numbers and breakdown of Butler as a SF as opposed to when he played primarily as a SG.