Would You Trade the #5 Pick and LaVine for Butler?

[Lipoli390]

We've all heard the reports that the Wolves are dangling the #5 pick as part of a package for Jimmy Butler. We've heard that the Bulls covet Wiggins as part of that package. Abe's poll tests whether fans on this message Board would even consider trading Wiggins straight up for Butler and I think the answer will be a resounding no.

The question posed here is whether you would trade the #5 pick and Zach LaVine for Butler.

[Coolbreeze44]

I voted yes, but with much anguish. Butler is a star and the type of player that could go head to head with Draymond. I love Zach Lavine, but with the uncertainty of a #5 pick in this draft I think it's a deal I would sign off on.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I thought we already conducted this poll here... then realized we only discussed a similar trade in a thread pretty extensively.

I posted a version of this poll over on Real GM just to test the waters of the non-Wolves fan. (That trade included S. Muhammad and LaVine and the #5 pick.) Cam said he was going to run a poll on Twitter to gauge reactions. Don't know if he did though...


[Note: Lip... I didn't create that other poll. LST did.]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've been through the Butler scenarios before, but I can recap my two main concerns:

1. What is the hierarchy on offense? Who gets the most touches and shots? Someone needs to play the 3rd wheel and ain't going to be KAT. He's the #1 or 2 guy easily, so that leaves Butler and Wiggins. Are either of these guys truly ready to become the Miami version of Chris Bosh or Cleveland version of Kevin Love? Because going from a #1 or #2 guy to #3 is a very precipitous drop. This is why vets like Deng and Horford are appealing. They can improve our team immediately without upsetting the offensive hierarchy established. I just have a hard time seeing how to keep both of these guys happy along with their agents and other handlers that attach themselves to these guys and their careers.

2. Outside shooting. While Butler, Wiggins, and Rubio have all showed signs of success from outside of the arc, let's face it, not one of them is a true-blue volume 3-point sniper. So even if they become more consistent with that shot, we need someone that can knock it down in volume in today's NBA - not just make them when they are wide open. LaVine is the one guy on the roster capable of doing that.

[thedoper]

I would absolutely yes. Butler can do more for this team for now and as much as Lavine will be able to moving forward.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We've been through the Butler scenarios before, but I can recap my two main concerns:

1. What is the hierarchy on offense? Who gets the most touches and shots? Someone needs to play the 3rd wheel and ain't going to be KAT. He's the #1 or 2 guy easily, so that leaves Butler and Wiggins. Are either of these guys truly ready to become the Miami version of Chris Bosh or Cleveland version of Kevin Love? Because going from a #1 or #2 guy to #3 is a very precipitous drop. This is why vets like Deng and Horford are appealing. They can improve our team immediately without upsetting the offensive hierarchy established. I just have a hard time seeing how to keep both of these guys happy along with their agents and other handlers that attach themselves to these guys and their careers.

2. Outside shooting. While Butler, Wiggins, and Rubio have all showed signs of success from outside of the arc, let's face it, not one of them is a true-blue volume 3-point sniper. So even if they become more consistent with that shot, we need someone that can knock it down in volume in today's NBA - not just make them when they are wide open. LaVine is the one guy on the roster capable of doing that.

While I understand #1... isn't that potentially an issue with Z. LaVine, too if he pans out like so many think he will? Will it be worse that Butler is established? Or worse that Towns/Wiggins/LaVine will all battle for their own spot in this league simultaneously*?


* even though we know Towns should be THE guy... the question is knowing if other guys understand it. Longtime Wolves fans will never forget the Marbury saga...

[thedoper]

We've been through the Butler scenarios before, but I can recap my two main concerns:

1. What is the hierarchy on offense? Who gets the most touches and shots? Someone needs to play the 3rd wheel and ain't going to be KAT. He's the #1 or 2 guy easily, so that leaves Butler and Wiggins. Are either of these guys truly ready to become the Miami version of Chris Bosh or Cleveland version of Kevin Love? Because going from a #1 or #2 guy to #3 is a very precipitous drop. This is why vets like Deng and Horford are appealing. They can improve our team immediately without upsetting the offensive hierarchy established. I just have a hard time seeing how to keep both of these guys happy along with their agents and other handlers that attach themselves to these guys and their careers.

2. Outside shooting. While Butler, Wiggins, and Rubio have all showed signs of success from outside of the arc, let's face it, not one of them is a true-blue volume 3-point sniper. So even if they become more consistent with that shot, we need someone that can knock it down in volume in today's NBA - not just make them when they are wide open. LaVine is the one guy on the roster capable of doing that.

While I understand #1... isn't that potentially an issue with Z. LaVine, too if he pans out like so many think he will? Will it be worse that Butler is established? Or worse that Towns/Wiggins/LaVine will all battle for their own spot in this league simultaneously*?


* even though we know Towns should be THE guy... the question is knowing if other guys understand it. Longtime Wolves fans will never forget the Marbury saga...

Great point Abe. I think it is fair to say from Zach's decision making so far that he would absolutely believe he is the #1,2 and 3 option.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I gotta think about this one...I'm leaning yes, but I'm concerned about what kind of outside shooting that would leave us.

One thing I'm 98% certain of though...the Bulls don't even consider this deal.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We've been through the Butler scenarios before, but I can recap my two main concerns:

1. What is the hierarchy on offense? Who gets the most touches and shots? Someone needs to play the 3rd wheel and ain't going to be KAT. He's the #1 or 2 guy easily, so that leaves Butler and Wiggins. Are either of these guys truly ready to become the Miami version of Chris Bosh or Cleveland version of Kevin Love? Because going from a #1 or #2 guy to #3 is a very precipitous drop. This is why vets like Deng and Horford are appealing. They can improve our team immediately without upsetting the offensive hierarchy established. I just have a hard time seeing how to keep both of these guys happy along with their agents and other handlers that attach themselves to these guys and their careers.

2. Outside shooting. While Butler, Wiggins, and Rubio have all showed signs of success from outside of the arc, let's face it, not one of them is a true-blue volume 3-point sniper. So even if they become more consistent with that shot, we need someone that can knock it down in volume in today's NBA - not just make them when they are wide open. LaVine is the one guy on the roster capable of doing that.

While I understand #1... isn't that potentially an issue with Z. LaVine, too if he pans out like so many think he will? Will it be worse that Butler is established? Or worse that Towns/Wiggins/LaVine will all battle for their own spot in this league simultaneously*?


* even though we know Towns should be THE guy... the question is knowing if other guys understand it. Longtime Wolves fans will never forget the Marbury saga...

Yes, it could eventually be an issue for Zach LaVine too. The good news is that it appears his chemistry with KAT and Wiggins is very good for the moment. And he probably also realizes that being the clear #3 option as a 2nd/3rd year player that didn't even start in college is a pretty damn good situation to be in for now.

Now if Butler saluted to Thibs and basically said he was happy being the 3rd wheel and focusing his energy on checking the opposing team's best wing night in and night out to save Wiggins the trouble, I could be swayed that this would be a good deal. I'm just not convinced he would be willing to do that. And if Wiggins did the same thing, I'd be concerned because he has not shown the engagement and motor yet to be a stopper and hustle guy for 48 minutes. He needs a lot of touches IMO.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I think the main difference between Zach and Butler being here is Zach has developed with Wiggins and Towns. He's played along side them and they are getting better at each getting their looks throughout the games. Butler coming in here and instantly being the primary ball handler and number 1 option messes all that chemistry up and if you argue Ricky will still be the primary ball handler here then you are taking away a lot of what makes Butler so good. You can't have Ricky be the primary ball handler and have Butler and Wiggins who need the ball to drive to the basket work offensively together. Meanwhile Zach can sit behind the arc and hit 40% of the looks he gets out there off of Ricky and Wiggins driving to the basket and he can occasionally throw in a few drives of his own. I think Zach is a better complimentary offensive player while Butler needs the ball to be effective. I guess I don't see the veteran Butler as a guy who's gonna defer at all to Towns or Wiggins and that's gonna mess with the team chemistry.