Butler Trade Talks - For Real?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I honestly am amused by some of the reports we're hearing. Chicago is not interested unless Wig is part of the deal? I wouldn't trade Wig by himself for Butler. I mean really, let's come down to earth here.

Hard to know which rumors have any legs to them whatsoever, but like several others I can't see this deal ever happening. I wish the rhetoric would just go away.

Maybe the most logical is that Chicago leaked the story just to spur discussions with Boston?

After all, using Thibodeau's current team as leverage would be a double bonus based on the acrimony between the two camps, right?

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I honestly am amused by some of the reports we're hearing. Chicago is not interested unless Wig is part of the deal? I wouldn't trade Wig by himself for Butler. I mean really, let's come down to earth here.

Hard to know which rumors have any legs to them whatsoever, but like several others I can't see this deal ever happening. I wish the rhetoric would just go away.

I agree that a deal involving Butler and the Wolves is unlikely. But as much as I like Wig and see him as a possible perrenial future all-star, I would trade him straight-up for Butler. I just don't know if Wig will ever be as good a defender as Butler.

Since many sources say that the Bulls covet Wig, Wig for Butler could be an interesting poll question.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Thibs failed in Chicago because his offense failed in Chicago. They had no way of getting easy baskets and part of that is having guards who aren't great shooters (Rose when he played and Butler). Bringing in Butler isn't the answer here. He's just a more developed version of Wiggins. If we are trading 5 I want to fill an actual hole on the roster, not just add a similar player to what we have.

There are those who believe you can never have enough good two-way wing players in today's NBA.

Considering the Wolves don't have any (YET)... I can see why some would champion such a trade. In fact, the Wolves would have the potential to have two of the better two-way wings if Wiggins develops and Butler gives the Wolves what he gave Chicago. Those guys can switch anything and both can score.

The three point issue can't be ignored. But there's always a trade-off, right?

There doesn't have to be a trade-off. Thibs could choose instead to actually coach up this young team and turn a guy like Lavine (who has the tools) into a two way player and Lavine can already shoot the ball. Lavine has one of the highest ceilings in the NBA with his shooting touch, athleticism and handling. He needs to put on some weight and develop his basketball IQ and you're looking at a guy who could be a bigger force than Butler. Butler is a great player, but I think Wiggins is in the same mold with his scoring potency and individual defensive potency. If Thibs is such a great coach he should be able to help Lavine and Wiggins both become better players than Butler because they both came into the league with better tools than Butler did.

The odds are stacked against LaVine becoming as good of a two-way player as Butler regardless of the coach. But then, there's that #5 pick, too... so I can see hesitation in the trade if somebody really digs LaVine and thinks that he's going to fulfill all of his potential.

The other part of this is that the Wolves are very young. There are two trains of thought here. Some might hope for all the youngsters to mature and develop and realize their potential at near the same pace without any issues that can plague super young teams grasping for their collective and individual places in the league. They could look at OKC as proof that it can work. After all, Wiggins, Towns and LaVine each has some crazy good skills that are captivating as hell.

Others might look at such a young roster and think that a young veteran mixed in who's been through some hardened battles can help expedite the process. And IF Thibodeau views Wiggins and Towns as THE future... and consider the type of coach Thibodeau is supposed to be and consider that LaVine is a mercurial but polarizing talent with a long way to go and no guarantee that he has the acumen or "basketball IQ" to get there... using him to get one of the league's best two-way wings makes more sense.

Both approaches have merit. I prefer the latter because I believe that the NBA has a very steep learning curve. But I get the former, too. And LaVine is way ahead of projections...

I guess I don't care about odds when talking about if someone is going to be good enough or not especially when we have two years of tape on them. If you're Thibs you either see the work ethic and skill to turn Lavine into a player or you don't. Considering Zach has improved from the worst player in the league to a decent complimentary starter in 2 years tells me the work ethic is there and the eye test from some of his big games says the skill is there so I think if Thibs can turn Butler into a star player he should have no problem doing it for Zach who's a hard worker himself and has a better skill set than Butler did coming into the league. Zach will likely never be the defender Butler is, but he has the potential to be a far better offensive player and as long as he becomes an acceptable defender I think he'll have a bigger impact on games than Butler.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I feel like I'm one of the most critical posters when it comes to Wiggins, and I'm actually a big fan of Butler -- have been since his second year in the league -- but there's not a chance in hell I even think about moving him for Butler in a one-for-one swap let alone paired with the No. 5 pick. I don't even like seeing LaVine's name floating around in this rumor.

Butler's arguably the fourth or fifth best two-way wing in the game, which means he's somewhere in the top-25 of all players.. I have high praise for the guy, but trading Wiggins or LaVine for him just doesn't make any sense, IMO.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Thibs failed in Chicago because his offense failed in Chicago. They had no way of getting easy baskets and part of that is having guards who aren't great shooters (Rose when he played and Butler). Bringing in Butler isn't the answer here. He's just a more developed version of Wiggins. If we are trading 5 I want to fill an actual hole on the roster, not just add a similar player to what we have.

There are those who believe you can never have enough good two-way wing players in today's NBA.

Considering the Wolves don't have any (YET)... I can see why some would champion such a trade. In fact, the Wolves would have the potential to have two of the better two-way wings if Wiggins develops and Butler gives the Wolves what he gave Chicago. Those guys can switch anything and both can score.

The three point issue can't be ignored. But there's always a trade-off, right?

There doesn't have to be a trade-off. Thibs could choose instead to actually coach up this young team and turn a guy like Lavine (who has the tools) into a two way player and Lavine can already shoot the ball. Lavine has one of the highest ceilings in the NBA with his shooting touch, athleticism and handling. He needs to put on some weight and develop his basketball IQ and you're looking at a guy who could be a bigger force than Butler. Butler is a great player, but I think Wiggins is in the same mold with his scoring potency and individual defensive potency. If Thibs is such a great coach he should be able to help Lavine and Wiggins both become better players than Butler because they both came into the league with better tools than Butler did.

The odds are stacked against LaVine becoming as good of a two-way player as Butler regardless of the coach. But then, there's that #5 pick, too... so I can see hesitation in the trade if somebody really digs LaVine and thinks that he's going to fulfill all of his potential.

The other part of this is that the Wolves are very young. There are two trains of thought here. Some might hope for all the youngsters to mature and develop and realize their potential at near the same pace without any issues that can plague super young teams grasping for their collective and individual places in the league. They could look at OKC as proof that it can work. After all, Wiggins, Towns and LaVine each has some crazy good skills that are captivating as hell.

Others might look at such a young roster and think that a young veteran mixed in who's been through some hardened battles can help expedite the process. And IF Thibodeau views Wiggins and Towns as THE future... and consider the type of coach Thibodeau is supposed to be and consider that LaVine is a mercurial but polarizing talent with a long way to go and no guarantee that he has the acumen or "basketball IQ" to get there... using him to get one of the league's best two-way wings makes more sense.

Both approaches have merit. I prefer the latter because I believe that the NBA has a very steep learning curve. But I get the former, too. And LaVine is way ahead of projections...

I guess I don't care about odds when talking about if someone is going to be good enough or not especially when we have two years of tape on them. If you're Thibs you either see the work ethic and skill to turn Lavine into a player or you don't. Considering Zach has improved from the worst player in the league to a decent complimentary starter in 2 years tells me the work ethic is there and the eye test from some of his big games says the skill is there so I think if Thibs can turn Butler into a star player he should have no problem doing it for Zach who's a hard worker himself and has a better skill set than Butler did coming into the league. Zach will likely never be the defender Butler is, but he has the potential to be a far better offensive player and as long as he becomes an acceptable defender I think he'll have a bigger impact on games than Butler.

I think the inherent difference in our opinions about LaVine is rooted in how much more difficult I believe it is to turn somebody into a star player.

There are simply too many other variables in there for me than "he did it for Butler, he can do it for Xxxxx."

[Lipoli390]

I feel like I'm one of the most critical posters when it comes to Wiggins, and I'm actually a big fan of Butler -- have been since his second year in the league -- but there's not a chance in hell I even think about moving him for Butler in a one-for-one swap let alone paired with the No. 5 pick. I don't even like seeing LaVine's name floating around in this rumor.

Butler's arguably the fourth or fifth best two-way wing in the game, which means he's somewhere in the top-25 of all players.. I have high praise for the guy, but trading Wiggins or LaVine for him just doesn't make any sense, IMO.

Well said, Cam!!

[Monster]

I feel like I'm one of the most critical posters when it comes to Wiggins, and I'm actually a big fan of Butler -- have been since his second year in the league -- but there's not a chance in hell I even think about moving him for Butler in a one-for-one swap let alone paired with the No. 5 pick. I don't even like seeing LaVine's name floating around in this rumor.

Butler's arguably the fourth or fifth best two-way wing in the game, which means he's somewhere in the top-25 of all players.. I have high praise for the guy, but trading Wiggins or LaVine for him just doesn't make any sense, IMO.

Agreed. Like I said before this "story" is basically click bait/something to talk about. Butler isn't going anywhere and the Wolves aren't giving up what it will flake to deal for him.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I honestly am amused by some of the reports we're hearing. Chicago is not interested unless Wig is part of the deal? I wouldn't trade Wig by himself for Butler. I mean really, let's come down to earth here.

Hard to know which rumors have any legs to them whatsoever, but like several others I can't see this deal ever happening. I wish the rhetoric would just go away.

I agree that a deal involving Butler and the Wolves is unlikely. But as much as I like Wig and see him as a possible perrenial future all-star, I would trade him straight-up for Butler. I just don't know if Wig will ever be as good a defender as Butler.

Since many sources say that the Bulls covet Wig, Wig for Butler could be an interesting poll question.

I'd definitely think real hard about a Wiggins for Butler deal.

Wiggins is younger, on a better contract, and already has a rapport with Towns. And his potential is still really high.

The injury concerns with Butler are real. But Butler is already what I suspect Wiggins could become IF he improves his defense, his handle, his rebounding, and his passing and I don't necessarily see that as a sure thing. Wiggins didn't improve much in those areas from his 1st to his 2nd year, so that's not a great sign.

At this point, I'd trade Wiggins for Butler straight up. I don't think that's so crazy. We'd still have LaVine for 3 point shooting (and maybe Hield if we draft him). Plus Butler has actually shot above 37% from 3 a couple seasons, so it's possible he could help us out with 3 point shooting a little more than Wiggins. It would make our window open sooner than we'd expected, but with Towns looking as good as he is, I think we're about ready.

[Lipoli390]

Drew -- I think you make a good argument for doing the deal. Actually, there are good arguments on both sides. But in the end I think you have to assume that a 26 year old 5-year veteran will perform in the future as he has in the past. Therefore, in Butler's case you have to assume he'll play great defense with 18-20 PPG, 5 RPG, 1.5 SPG and 3-5 assists. He's a heck of a player. But you also have to assume he'll miss at least 15 games and shoot around 30-33% from behind the arc. It's a close call, but I'd still say no to the straight-up Wiggins for Butler deal.