Towns vs. Dieng...who starts?

[Carlos Danger]

Dieng is much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit. Last year Dieng was a second year guy who got forced into a starter role due to injury. He still put up 17.2 PER and a 2.5 VORP. We'll all be very happy if Wiggins and LaVine do that in their second seasons.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Dieng is much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit. Last year Dieng was a second year guy who got forced into a starter role due to injury. He still put up 17.2 PER and a 2.5 VORP. We'll all be very happy if Wiggins and LaVine do that in their second seasons.

Dieng is a good backup C. While he played efficiently last year, his 15% usage and overall 10/8/2/1.7/1 in 30 MPG's on a depleted team is nothing special. That's what you hope he could put up in 20-24 backup minutes, not 30 minutes as the starter. There's also the fact that he was the defensive anchor on a terrible defensive team. We need a legitimate defensive anchor at C and he isn't that guy so the value he brings on offense is nice, but doesn't outweigh the fact that we are vulnerable defensively when he's in. His game is just a better fit as a bench big than a starter. He's a matchup advantage as a backup and a matchup disadvantage most nights as a starter. If he steps up his defensive game he could be the starter, but so far his defense has pretty much stayed the same while his offense has seen the most improvement.

[Carlos Danger]

Dieng is much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit. Last year Dieng was a second year guy who got forced into a starter role due to injury. He still put up 17.2 PER and a 2.5 VORP. We'll all be very happy if Wiggins and LaVine do that in their second seasons.

Dieng is a good backup C. While he played efficiently last year, his 15% usage and overall 10/8/2/1.7/1 in 30 MPG's on a depleted team is nothing special. That's what you hope he could put up in 20-24 backup minutes, not 30 minutes as the starter. There's also the fact that he was the defensive anchor on a terrible defensive team. We need a legitimate defensive anchor at C and he isn't that guy so the value he brings on offense is nice, but doesn't outweigh the fact that we are vulnerable defensively when he's in. His game is just a better fit as a bench big than a starter. He's a matchup advantage as a backup and a matchup disadvantage most nights as a starter. If he steps up his defensive game he could be the starter, but so far his defense has pretty much stayed the same while his offense has seen the most improvement.

But that's what Dieng is....a backup. And a second year player as well. My point was Dieng was forced into a bigger role due to Pek's injury and he held out fine. I think if Towns averages 10 points/8 rebounds this year everyone will be happy. Well...last year we got that from our backup center. We're lucky to have that kind of depth.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Dieng is much better player than a lot of people on here give him credit. Last year Dieng was a second year guy who got forced into a starter role due to injury. He still put up 17.2 PER and a 2.5 VORP. We'll all be very happy if Wiggins and LaVine do that in their second seasons.

Dieng is a good backup C. While he played efficiently last year, his 15% usage and overall 10/8/2/1.7/1 in 30 MPG's on a depleted team is nothing special. That's what you hope he could put up in 20-24 backup minutes, not 30 minutes as the starter. There's also the fact that he was the defensive anchor on a terrible defensive team. We need a legitimate defensive anchor at C and he isn't that guy so the value he brings on offense is nice, but doesn't outweigh the fact that we are vulnerable defensively when he's in. His game is just a better fit as a bench big than a starter. He's a matchup advantage as a backup and a matchup disadvantage most nights as a starter. If he steps up his defensive game he could be the starter, but so far his defense has pretty much stayed the same while his offense has seen the most improvement.

But that's what Dieng is....a backup. And a second year player as well. My point was Dieng was forced into a bigger role due to Pek's injury and he held out fine. I think if Towns averages 10 points/8 rebounds this year everyone will be happy. Well...last year we got that from our backup center. We're lucky to have that kind of depth.

I don't think you're understanding the larger argument going on. We're both on the same page that Dieng is a good backup. There are other people in this thread saying Dieng should be starting. Dieng put up good backup numbers in the starting role last year and Towns is the guy moving forward anyway so it would make sense to put Dieng back in the backup role and start Towns to develop him in his long-term role. If Dieng would give us 12 and 10 and Towns 10-8 I would still start Towns to develop him. The only way I think Dieng should start is if he is just significantly better than Towns which I don't think is the case.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

It looks like it's about 2:1 on this board in favor of Towns starting over Dieng. I'd love to see Karl earn it, by clearly outperforming Gorgui in preseason, but until I see a lot more than we saw in Vegas, I think Gorgui is the stronger choice.

As mentioned above he had a very respectable PER of 17.3 last year, the highest PER on the team for players getting 25 MPG or more. He hit over 50% of his shots even though a high percentage of his shots were outside 10 feet, and was over 78% from the line. He also ranked in the top 10 among centers last year in assists and blocks per game, while averaging 9.7 PPG and 8.3 RPG in only 30 minutes per game. And keep in mind, over 50% of his time on the court was with Zach LaVine at PG...just think of how much better his stats would be with Rubio feeding him rather than Zach. And even though he averaged almost 2 blocks per game, he still kept his fouls down to a reasonable 2.6 per game. Now, keep in mind how much better NBA players are in their third years compared to their first two, and it's not difficult to envision Gorgui averaging 14 and 10, with 3-4 assists and blocks per games.

I'm in the minority here in that I see the Wolves challenging for a playoff spot this year if they stay healthy. With that mindset, I don't want to see three guys 19-20 years old in the starting lineup...especially when there are more veteran options available. I don't like the idea of putting so much pressure on a kid who has less than 800 on-court minutes since high school. Dieng gives Sam the luxury of letting Karl develop at a less frantic pace, and I think that will be better for him in the long run.

Now, if the Wolves come out of the gate going 3-7, or if they experience the kind of injuries they had last year, I'll quickly go all in and call for Towns to start and play 35 minutes, and for Tyus to back up Ricky. While they still look like a playoff team to me, though, I want Sam to go with the most reliable guys he has, and that's not likely to be rookies.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't think you're understanding the larger argument going on. We're both on the same page that Dieng is a good backup. There are other people in this thread saying Dieng should be starting. Dieng put up good backup numbers in the starting role last year and Towns is the guy moving forward anyway so it would make sense to put Dieng back in the backup role and start Towns to develop him in his long-term role. If Dieng would give us 12 and 10 and Towns 10-8 I would still start Towns to develop him. The only way I think Dieng should start is if he is just significantly better than Towns which I don't think is the case.

I was mainly trying to balance some of the Dieng bashing. As far as who starts, I'm pretty confident it will be Towns. They drafted him for a reason and it wasn't to be a backup. Plus from a development standpoint, it make sense to run him with Rubio, Wiggins and KG. And from a marketing standpoint, you need to showcase the first ever #1 overall pick in Franchise History as part of your new starting five.

[KiwiMatt]

With KG likely not playing back to back games this season we need a big who can slot in.

I can see Dieng starting these games - next to KAT. Actually I quite like the idea of it and think Dieng would flourish in this role. KAT defends the rim and Dieng the high post. They would compliment each other well and block a lot of shots. Dieng is also a pretty handy rebounder.

Offensively it wouldn't be as pretty, but Dieng has developed a solid all round game. Those Tim Duncan'esqe step back J's off the glass were a nice surprise last season. And it looks like he has improved his range to beyond the 3pt line.

[Lipoli390]

I don't think you're understanding the larger argument going on. We're both on the same page that Dieng is a good backup. There are other people in this thread saying Dieng should be starting. Dieng put up good backup numbers in the starting role last year and Towns is the guy moving forward anyway so it would make sense to put Dieng back in the backup role and start Towns to develop him in his long-term role. If Dieng would give us 12 and 10 and Towns 10-8 I would still start Towns to develop him. The only way I think Dieng should start is if he is just significantly better than Towns which I don't think is the case.

I was mainly trying to balance some of the Dieng bashing. As far as who starts, I'm pretty confident it will be Towns. They drafted him for a reason and it wasn't to be a backup. Plus from a development standpoint, it make sense to run him with Rubio, Wiggins and KG. And from a marketing standpoint, you need to showcase the first ever #1 overall pick in Franchise History as part of your new starting five.

I agree with Carlos. Towns will likely start at center, but Dieng appears to be undervalued by many on this board. Let's not forget that Dieng is just entering his third NBA season and is still a work in progress. Big men tend to take more time to develop. Dieng is still developing his skill set, and even at age 24, he'll continue to get stronger. He has a great work ethic and tremendous intensity. He's also highly competitive. I'm convinced that Dieng will eventually be a starting caliber center or PF in the NBA. Maybe not with the Wolves, but somewhere.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

To Khans point, we had one of the worst defenses in NBA history last year and Dieng anchored it for the majority of the season. That sort of overshadows whatever else he did that was positive. I believe he was an NBA-worst among bigs in terms of opponent FG% at the rim.

We'll see if Mitchell and KG can coach him up. For starters, he needs to learn how to square up and wall up against penetrating guards. No more giving them a half step in the hopes he can block their layup attempt off the glass. Trey Burke might be the only guy this works on.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Q is correct that Dieng had a Pek/Kevin Love-like opponents field goal percentage at the rim last tear...seems to be an unfortunate characteristic of this team to always have a bottom ten guy in that stat. But we also know that defensive stats can be misleading. Andrew Wiggins had a DRtg per 100 last year of 114, while Gorgui's was much better at 108...but my eye test tells me Wiggins is the better defender. Gorgui's peripheral defensive stats (rebounding, blocks, steals, not fouling) are easier to measure, and all pretty good. Like Towns, Gorgui was a very highly regarded defender coming out of college, so who knows what kind of impact playing for a bad Wolves' team has had on his performance. That's why I'm so excited about Mitchell's emphasis on defense. Wolves players were saying they hadn't worked on basic defensive fundamentals like that since college, and it has to have a positive impact.

I'm going to the scrimmage tonight...what fun to have a full house for a scrimmage! Sam will tip his hand tonight about his thoughts regarding who are his starters at SG and C right now, but we also know that can change during the preseason. I see the battles at those two positions as being toss ups, and knowing Mitchell's style, the winner will be whoever leaves it all on the floor every night. Gorgui and Towns will probably both impress Sam in this area (I loved how Towns went to the floor a couple times in Vegas chasing loose balls), but this could be the tiebreaker in the LaVine/Martin race.