I was thinking the other day about how it feels like David Griffin had done a pretty good job adding talent to the Cavs roster and thought the Love Wiggins deal was maybe a bit of a misstep. Then I thought about it more and it was Wiggins and a decent 1st rounder for Love and as it turns out dumping Bennett and his salary plus having an open roster spot. Sounds a bit better.
So then we get to the other parts of that trade for the Wolves. Would the 6ers have wanted Bennett over that 1st round pick? The more I think about it the Sixera are always in on getting picks and that Miami pick down the line could be unprotected. I bet that was their target the whole time. Flip said Bennett was never on the table for the Sixers. So let's say that was the case the Wolves gave up a 1st rounder for Thad. At the time that seemed like a perfectly reasonable idea to bring him in for that price. Of course that didn't really work out but they traded him for KG and some people were not happy with it and said they could have just brought KG in and signed him in the offseason. I was one of the people that said trading for him mattered in KG's mind.
Consider how things went down this offseason If we hadn't traded for KG but Flip and the Wolves wanted him to come to the Wolves. KG would have taken his time making the decision. Maybe thay keeps the Wolves from adding Prince or Miller. Maybe with Flip's health situation KG never comes back at all. I know people have varying degrees of support for KG being on this team but I do think it's been a net positive that we may not have gotten otherwise. I'd love to have that Miami pick but I do think having KG here will have some lasting impact. It's truly amazing how quickly things can change in just a matter of weeks. As Wolves fans we saw it this last offseason in a couple ways getting the 1st overall pick and Towns and then Flip passing.
Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
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TRKO [enjin:12664595]
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Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
I still think not having the Miami pick is a negative. Yes KG has added to the overall picture, but I think long term that future first is more important for a rebuilding team. Flip got the main portion of the trade right, so that negates the side portion.
To me the big mistake Flip made was not trading Martin for assets when his stock was up last year. It's going to be a little bit until we are able to compete, so trading Martin then would have made the most sense. His biggest mistake was trading a future first for Payne. That's not a move a rebuilding team should make. Payne was not an established player, and rebuilding teams need to stockpile assets.
On the whole Flip set us up very nicely with some great young talent. When you judge the whole picture you would have to give the guy an A.
To me the big mistake Flip made was not trading Martin for assets when his stock was up last year. It's going to be a little bit until we are able to compete, so trading Martin then would have made the most sense. His biggest mistake was trading a future first for Payne. That's not a move a rebuilding team should make. Payne was not an established player, and rebuilding teams need to stockpile assets.
On the whole Flip set us up very nicely with some great young talent. When you judge the whole picture you would have to give the guy an A.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
I don't see how the Garnett trade leads to much of anything with his latest contract.
No NBA team was willing to give him $16M other than the Wolves. The guy was taking that money for 15 mpg on a limited basis whether they traded for him or not the previous season.
No NBA team was willing to give him $16M other than the Wolves. The guy was taking that money for 15 mpg on a limited basis whether they traded for him or not the previous season.
Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I don't see how the Garnett trade leads to much of anything with his latest contract.
No NBA team was willing to give him $16M other than the Wolves. The guy was taking that money for 15 mpg on a limited basis whether they traded for him or not the previous season.
That's a fair point and one worth bringing up. Actually that may be another point for the trade because I don't know if the Wolves could have given him that much money on the open market because of their cap situation. I don't really care enough to research it out though.
Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
Trading for KG was necessary to pay him what Flip ended up paying him. So I get the trade from that perspective. I liked bringing KG here and have been happy with what he's done to energize the fan base late last season and mentor KAT this season. But I never liked the Thad trade and still don't.
That Miami pick was the real sweetener for me in the Love deal. First round picks are gold to a rebuilding team like the Wolves, particularly at that point when we were just beginning the rebuild. Thad never made sense to me for a team at the beginning of the rebuilding process. And if we couldn't land Thad without giving up a first round pick, including the Miami pick, then we shouldn't have done it. And I suspect we could have acquired KG from the Nets for assets other than Thad or a first round pick. Perhaps some combination of Moe Williams, Kevin Martin and another asset. Otherwise, I suspect KG would have signed here as a FA this season at the $5.3 million per year exception level. He came here to close out his career back home where it started and as a prelude to a new role with this organization in management and/or ownership.
I love what Flip did to put this franchise back on track. But he did make 4 significant mistakes even when not judged with hindsight. I think the deal for Thad was one of those mistakes. I thought so at the time and still think so. Here are the other three:
1. Another mistake in my view was swapping a lottery-protected future first for Payne. I said so at the time and still think so. We will likely be a playoff team when that pick comes due and that's precisely the time you want a first round pick to package with other assets to shore up your roster with a key veteran from a team that has decided to jettison good players and rebuild. Again, a rebuilding team like the Wolves needs to treat every first round pick like gold. Payne couldn't even get playing time ahead of several no-names at his position who got minutes coming off the bench.
2. Trading down for Shabazz rather than taking McCollum and then drafting Dieng or Gobert, whichever was available with our other first rounder - #27 I think. I said so at the time and haven't changed my mind. I think Flip compounded this mistake by taking Shabazz instead of the Greek Freak, which I recall saying at the time I would have done assuming I made the deal out of concern about McCollum's foot, which is what Flip said tipped the scales in favor of the deal.
3. Flip further compounded the mistake by selling pick #27 for meaningless cash instead of taking Gobert. I'll admit that I had Dieng ranked higher than Gobert on my board at the time and would have taken him over Gobert if given the choice. I'll also admit I didn't foresee Gobert being as good as he's been this quickly. However, I couldn't believe we passed on him at #27.
That Miami pick was the real sweetener for me in the Love deal. First round picks are gold to a rebuilding team like the Wolves, particularly at that point when we were just beginning the rebuild. Thad never made sense to me for a team at the beginning of the rebuilding process. And if we couldn't land Thad without giving up a first round pick, including the Miami pick, then we shouldn't have done it. And I suspect we could have acquired KG from the Nets for assets other than Thad or a first round pick. Perhaps some combination of Moe Williams, Kevin Martin and another asset. Otherwise, I suspect KG would have signed here as a FA this season at the $5.3 million per year exception level. He came here to close out his career back home where it started and as a prelude to a new role with this organization in management and/or ownership.
I love what Flip did to put this franchise back on track. But he did make 4 significant mistakes even when not judged with hindsight. I think the deal for Thad was one of those mistakes. I thought so at the time and still think so. Here are the other three:
1. Another mistake in my view was swapping a lottery-protected future first for Payne. I said so at the time and still think so. We will likely be a playoff team when that pick comes due and that's precisely the time you want a first round pick to package with other assets to shore up your roster with a key veteran from a team that has decided to jettison good players and rebuild. Again, a rebuilding team like the Wolves needs to treat every first round pick like gold. Payne couldn't even get playing time ahead of several no-names at his position who got minutes coming off the bench.
2. Trading down for Shabazz rather than taking McCollum and then drafting Dieng or Gobert, whichever was available with our other first rounder - #27 I think. I said so at the time and haven't changed my mind. I think Flip compounded this mistake by taking Shabazz instead of the Greek Freak, which I recall saying at the time I would have done assuming I made the deal out of concern about McCollum's foot, which is what Flip said tipped the scales in favor of the deal.
3. Flip further compounded the mistake by selling pick #27 for meaningless cash instead of taking Gobert. I'll admit that I had Dieng ranked higher than Gobert on my board at the time and would have taken him over Gobert if given the choice. I'll also admit I didn't foresee Gobert being as good as he's been this quickly. However, I couldn't believe we passed on him at #27.
Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
I still see Flip's overall legacy as very positive. He left us with a core of elite young talent in KAT, Wiggins, LaVine and even Gorgui. He locked up Ricky to what will be a very reasonable contract under the new CBA. And I haven't given up on Shabazz or even Tyus Jones. He brought in a head trainer who has apparently turned around the injury fortunes of this franchise. Flip also restored respect for the organization around the League and reconnected the organization to the media and fans. Add to all that the prospect of an upcoming lottery pick likely in the 5-10 range.
This team is set up to become a championship contender, provided the organization makes smart moves over the next couple years. This organization is now one of the most attractive destinations for would-be basketball executives and head coaching candidates. The rest is up to Glen Taylor or whoever succeeds him as owner.
This team is set up to become a championship contender, provided the organization makes smart moves over the next couple years. This organization is now one of the most attractive destinations for would-be basketball executives and head coaching candidates. The rest is up to Glen Taylor or whoever succeeds him as owner.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
In hindsight, you could say re-signing Pekovic to that deal was also a poor decision. I give a pass on that one personally because I was in favor of bringing him back, but I can certainly agree with those who argue otherwise on this one.
Also, trading Thad for KG has always been a stupid trade. It was at the time and it still is looking back.
Also, trading Thad for KG has always been a stupid trade. It was at the time and it still is looking back.
Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
Camden wrote:In hindsight, you could say re-signing Pekovic to that deal was also a poor decision. I give a pass on that one personally because I was in favor of bringing him back, but I can certainly agree with those who argue otherwise on this one.
Also, trading Thad for KG has always been a stupid trade. It was at the time and it still is looking back.
Cam - I agree with you on Pek. I couldn't list signing Pek as a mistake because I was limiting myself to things Flip did that I openly disagreed with at the time so I wouldn't just be judging him with hindsight.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
lipoli390 wrote:Camden wrote:In hindsight, you could say re-signing Pekovic to that deal was also a poor decision. I give a pass on that one personally because I was in favor of bringing him back, but I can certainly agree with those who argue otherwise on this one.
Also, trading Thad for KG has always been a stupid trade. It was at the time and it still is looking back.
Cam - I agree with you on Pek. I couldn't list signing Pek as a mistake because I was limiting myself to things Flip did that I openly disagreed with at the time so I wouldn't just be judging him with hindsight.
Yeah, at the time... the Wolves were considered an up-and-coming team that needed to do something to keep its star player, Kevin Love.
Many had the Wolves as a playoff team after Pek signed that contract before the 2014 season.
[Note: I did not. Hey, if others get to tout their accurate prognostications... so can I dammit! I didn't see that team as an under .500 club though. Very few did...]
Re: Odd revisiting of the wolves 2014-2015 season trades
lipoli390 wrote:Camden wrote:In hindsight, you could say re-signing Pekovic to that deal was also a poor decision. I give a pass on that one personally because I was in favor of bringing him back, but I can certainly agree with those who argue otherwise on this one.
Also, trading Thad for KG has always been a stupid trade. It was at the time and it still is looking back.
Cam - I agree with you on Pek. I couldn't list signing Pek as a mistake because I was limiting myself to things Flip did that I openly disagreed with at the time so I wouldn't just be judging him with hindsight.
If the options are resigning Pek to that deal or just letting him walk it's hard to rip Flip too much. I think people were surprised Flip gave him that 5 YEAR deal. If it would have been 4 years I think people would obviously be less upset about it. Where we sit now that deal doesn't really hold back the franchise that much now. That could change but at least his salary goes down not up.
My point of this thread was hindsight now looking back and considering everything that happened this summer with Flip I think ending up with KG out of that Love trade looks a little better. It's not always about getting the most assets sometimes you end up with too many. The Wolves don't have a problem of too many draft assets but I do think the trade for KG will end up with some lasting impact. Also I think Thade was a key to that KG deal. The Nets had wanted him for a long time. It was handy their salaries matched up AND the wolves were one place KG was actually willing to be traded to.