Q12543 wrote:Well, I think it's pretty obvious that whatever sequence of events most likely leads to KAT is the most desirable option, which means Wiggins.
But I would pose a simpler question: Without changing any other aspect of our current roster, who would you rather have today: Wiggins, Love, or Klay?
This is pretty much how I came to my answer/vote of Love, Wiggins, Thompson. I would have traded Love for Lou Amundson if it meant getting Towns in the following draft. But if all things are the same, I'll take one Kevin Love, please and thank you. 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and 4 APG doesn't grow on trees. Think he and Towns would be an insanely great combo. Not sure there's ever been a 4/5 duo that can space the floor like they'd be able to, and Towns' rim protection and ability to defend in space is exactly the kind of center we needed when Love was still here.
Yeah, people tend to forget what a great season he had when he was "the guy". He and Pek did not make a great pair in terms of defense (not to mention gambling Corey and matador Martin on the wings), but he would certainly help with this current squad's rebounding woes and give it another outside shooter and post threat.
I am personally torn on which of the three I would go with because a strong case could be made for all of them.
Edit: Here is another little factoid from that Kevin Love 13-14 squad: They were ranked 12th in defensive rating. So Pek-Love-Brewer-Martin-Rubio was >>>>> than Towns-Dieng-Wiggins-LaVine-Rubio on defense. Obviously that squad had a ceiling defensively and it was about as good as it was going to get, but it should put things into perspective. Perhaps Love isn't ridiculously bad at defense and perhaps our current group has a loooooooong ways to go still.
Q12543 wrote:Well, I think it's pretty obvious that whatever sequence of events most likely leads to KAT is the most desirable option, which means Wiggins.
But I would pose a simpler question: Without changing any other aspect of our current roster, who would you rather have today: Wiggins, Love, or Klay?
This is pretty much how I came to my answer/vote of Love, Wiggins, Thompson. I would have traded Love for Lou Amundson if it meant getting Towns in the following draft. But if all things are the same, I'll take one Kevin Love, please and thank you. 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and 4 APG doesn't grow on trees. Think he and Towns would be an insanely great combo. Not sure there's ever been a 4/5 duo that can space the floor like they'd be able to, and Towns' rim protection and ability to defend in space is exactly the kind of center we needed when Love was still here.
Yeah, people tend to forget what a great season he had when he was "the guy". He and Pek did not make a great pair in terms of defense (not to mention gambling Corey and matador Martin on the wings), but he would certainly help with this current squad's rebounding woes and give it another outside shooter and post threat.
I am personally torn on which of the three I would go with because a strong case could be made for all of them.
Edit: Here is another little factoid from that Kevin Love 13-14 squad: They were ranked 12th in defensive rating. So Pek-Love-Brewer-Martin-Rubio was >>>>> than Towns-Dieng-Wiggins-LaVine-Rubio on defense. Obviously that squad had a ceiling defensively and it was about as good as it was going to get, but it should put things into perspective. Perhaps Love isn't ridiculously bad at defense and perhaps our current group has a loooooooong ways to go still.
That team was Top 10 defensively for much of the season before a late season swoon.
A near Top 10 defense... Top 10 offense... and a 40 - 42 record.
Q12543 wrote:Well, I think it's pretty obvious that whatever sequence of events most likely leads to KAT is the most desirable option, which means Wiggins.
But I would pose a simpler question: Without changing any other aspect of our current roster, who would you rather have today: Wiggins, Love, or Klay?
This is pretty much how I came to my answer/vote of Love, Wiggins, Thompson. I would have traded Love for Lou Amundson if it meant getting Towns in the following draft. But if all things are the same, I'll take one Kevin Love, please and thank you. 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and 4 APG doesn't grow on trees. Think he and Towns would be an insanely great combo. Not sure there's ever been a 4/5 duo that can space the floor like they'd be able to, and Towns' rim protection and ability to defend in space is exactly the kind of center we needed when Love was still here.
Yeah, people tend to forget what a great season he had when he was "the guy". He and Pek did not make a great pair in terms of defense (not to mention gambling Corey and matador Martin on the wings), but he would certainly help with this current squad's rebounding woes and give it another outside shooter and post threat.
I am personally torn on which of the three I would go with because a strong case could be made for all of them.
Edit: Here is another little factoid from that Kevin Love 13-14 squad: They were ranked 12th in defensive rating. So Pek-Love-Brewer-Martin-Rubio was >>>>> than Towns-Dieng-Wiggins-LaVine-Rubio on defense. Obviously that squad had a ceiling defensively and it was about as good as it was going to get, but it should put things into perspective. Perhaps Love isn't ridiculously bad at defense and perhaps our current group has a loooooooong ways to go still.
That team was Top 10 defensively for much of the season before a late season swoon.
A near Top 10 defense... Top 10 offense... and a 40 - 42 record.
Yuck.
It's almost like there was some intangible factor that caused the team to perform worse than the stats would have led you to believe...
I vote Wiggins, Thompson and Love. Thompson and Love might be right now better than Wiggins but we wouldn't have been contenders this season even with either of them instead of Wiggins. I think that at the time we will be real contenders, Wiggins might have already surpassed both Love and Thompson as a player. I also think that Love might have so big weakness in his game (defense) that it would be really difficult to become real contender in West with him as team's 2nd best player. 7
I think it will be really interesting to see whether Cleveland can defend Golden State at all. If Golden State plays Bogut, I see Love defending him. But what Cleveland will do when Curry starts playing pick and roll with Bogut? Just pray that Curry misses when he gets that extra space after pick, switch immediately that would lead Curry taking open three pointers against Love or do they invent something else?
Out of Wiggins, Thompson and Love... I'm going with Thompson.
He just made his second straight All NBA team.
Has proven to be a key player on a title team... and saved the team this season in a one-of-a-kind performance in Game 6.
Plays good defense.
World's second best shooter, which tilts an entire defense to open up things for everybody else.
Love has had some incredible seasons, but GSW attacking him in space this series could swing a title. And that kind of glaring hole can't be ignored (see Mikkeman's post).
Wiggins might have the most promise. But, that's just it... promise. Can he be the 2nd best player on a championship team? Probably/maybe someday... but we just don't know.
I'll go with the more certain guy. Klay Thompson is putting up 26+ ppg in the NBA playoffs at 25 years old. That's legit.
[Note: A lot of comparable statistics talk between Thompson and Wiggins in Year 2. The thing is... Thompson's development isn't necessarily the norm. Just because they post some similar statistics doesn't mean that further similar improvements is guaranteed... or even expected. From the very beginning, Thompson was an elite three point shooter. He still is... but has expanded his game elsewhere. Wiggins doesn't do anything at an elite level yet (although his athleticism is elite)... so his improvement will have to be made in multiple areas. It could happen. I'm just saying that just because Player A improved in Year 3 and Year 4 and Year 5... it doesn't mean Player B will in the same way.]
To answer Q's question, I don't think anybody can argue that Klay Thompson isn't the best player of the 3 right now. Time will tell if Wig can ever surpass him...their 2nd year stats are very comparable.
I initiated this poll because I was curious if board sentiment about the trade had changed in two years, and I think it has. Most of us were happy with the trade two years ago, but mostly because we concluded it was the best Flip could do after Love told him he was going to leave. The prevailing sentiment was still that Kahn had blundered in only giving Kevin 4 years, and that blunder forced Love out the door and hurt the franchise, but that Flip was making at least some lemonade out of lemons. Now two years later, board opinion has migrated and now only 2 out of 16 posters still wish that Kahn had given Love 5 years. The other voters primarily recognize that while Love was an effective scorer and rebounder for us, he was not the guy that was going to take us to the next level...or possibly even to the playoffs. Not only did his forced departure lead directly to Andrew Wiggins, but indirectly it also gave us KAT...it's very unlikely that we would have ended up with the top pick if Love had stayed for the 2014-5 season. You could also make a case that Thibodeau would not be here as our coach if Love had stayed.
I'm not necessarily putting this out there as an endorsement of Kahn (although I was not in favor of giving Love 5 years), but rather as an indicator that the luck of this snakebit franchise might actually be turning around. After years of bad fortune, certain events have happened in the past 2-3 years that indicate that Lady Luck may finally be on our side.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Out of Wiggins, Thompson and Love... I'm going with Thompson.
He just made his second straight All NBA team.
Has proven to be a key player on a title team... and saved the team this season in a one-of-a-kind performance in Game 6.
Plays good defense.
World's second best shooter, which tilts an entire defense to open up things for everybody else.
Love has had some incredible seasons, but GSW attacking him in space this series could swing a title. And that kind of glaring hole can't be ignored (see Mikkeman's post).
Wiggins might have the most promise. But, that's just it... promise. Can he be the 2nd best player on a championship team? Probably/maybe someday... but we just don't know.
I'll go with the more certain guy. Klay Thompson is putting up 26+ ppg in the NBA playoffs at 25 years old. That's legit.
[Note: A lot of comparable statistics talk between Thompson and Wiggins in Year 2. The thing is... Thompson's development isn't necessarily the norm. Just because they post some similar statistics doesn't mean that further similar improvements is guaranteed... or even expected. From the very beginning, Thompson was an elite three point shooter. He still is... but has expanded his game elsewhere. Wiggins doesn't do anything at an elite level yet (although his athleticism is elite)... so his improvement will have to be made in multiple areas. It could happen. I'm just saying that just because Player A improved in Year 3 and Year 4 and Year 5... it doesn't mean Player B will in the same way.]
I think your post is fair so I'll say this is nitpicking (and to promote my homer Wiggins agenda) but I think Wiggins being top 10 in FTA means he is elite or pretty close to it in drawing fouls.
I pretty much agree with everything else which is why it's likely GS didn't have Klay on the table as an option in the deal for Love but we may never know for sure.
Q12543 wrote:Well, I think it's pretty obvious that whatever sequence of events most likely leads to KAT is the most desirable option, which means Wiggins.
But I would pose a simpler question: Without changing any other aspect of our current roster, who would you rather have today: Wiggins, Love, or Klay?
This is pretty much how I came to my answer/vote of Love, Wiggins, Thompson. I would have traded Love for Lou Amundson if it meant getting Towns in the following draft. But if all things are the same, I'll take one Kevin Love, please and thank you. 26 PPG, 12 RPG, and 4 APG doesn't grow on trees. Think he and Towns would be an insanely great combo. Not sure there's ever been a 4/5 duo that can space the floor like they'd be able to, and Towns' rim protection and ability to defend in space is exactly the kind of center we needed when Love was still here.
Yeah, people tend to forget what a great season he had when he was "the guy". He and Pek did not make a great pair in terms of defense (not to mention gambling Corey and matador Martin on the wings), but he would certainly help with this current squad's rebounding woes and give it another outside shooter and post threat.
I am personally torn on which of the three I would go with because a strong case could be made for all of them.
Edit: Here is another little factoid from that Kevin Love 13-14 squad: They were ranked 12th in defensive rating. So Pek-Love-Brewer-Martin-Rubio was >>>>> than Towns-Dieng-Wiggins-LaVine-Rubio on defense. Obviously that squad had a ceiling defensively and it was about as good as it was going to get, but it should put things into perspective. Perhaps Love isn't ridiculously bad at defense and perhaps our current group has a loooooooong ways to go still.
That team was Top 10 defensively for much of the season before a late season swoon.
A near Top 10 defense... Top 10 offense... and a 40 - 42 record.
Yuck.
That team wasn't perfect by any stretch, but they were the best squad we've fielded in a decade, and at times, ran people out of the building with blowout wins. They also encountered some incredibly bad luck in some of those close losses (the Gerald Green last second 3 with a guy draped all over him for example).
My main point is that on paper, that starting 5 looks like a terrible defensive team, when in fact they weren't all that bad.
longstrangetrip wrote:To answer Q's question, I don't think anybody can argue that Klay Thompson isn't the best player of the 3 right now. Time will tell if Wig can ever surpass him...their 2nd year stats are very comparable.
I initiated this poll because I was curious if board sentiment about the trade had changed in two years, and I think it has. Most of us were happy with the trade two years ago, but mostly because we concluded it was the best Flip could do after Love told him he was going to leave. The prevailing sentiment was still that Kahn had blundered in only giving Kevin 4 years, and that blunder forced Love out the door and hurt the franchise, but that Flip was making at least some lemonade out of lemons. Now two years later, board opinion has migrated and now only 2 out of 16 posters still wish that Kahn had given Love 5 years. The other voters primarily recognize that while Love was an effective scorer and rebounder for us, he was not the guy that was going to take us to the next level...or possibly even to the playoffs. Not only did his forced departure lead directly to Andrew Wiggins, but indirectly it also gave us KAT...it's very unlikely that we would have ended up with the top pick if Love had stayed for the 2014-5 season. You could also make a case that Thibodeau would not be here as our coach if Love had stayed.
I'm not necessarily putting this out there as an endorsement of Kahn (although I was not in favor of giving Love 5 years), but rather as an indicator that the luck of this snakebit franchise might actually be turning around. After years of bad fortune, certain events have happened in the past 2-3 years that indicate that Lady Luck may finally be on our side.
Right, but I'm not sure what the revelation is here. I don't think anyone disagrees that the sequence of events that took place, starting with LeBron's decision to go back to Cleveland and ending with Taylor's decision to go big on his Coach/GM search, has led to the strong position we're in now as a franchise. Let's also not forget that a tragedy took place in the midst of all this with Flip's death and how that also may have led to some decisions that ultimately help the franchise in the long term (I don't mean to be cruel with that comment - just being objective).
