thedoper wrote:Are these Rubio's intangible qualities on D tonight?
Yes. in 35 minutes he played Wolves conceded 73 points. In 13 minutes with him on the bench Wolves conceded 35 points. You can see intangible qualities in almost every game if you open your mind to it.
And Walker's 34? Almost half of those 73 pts were on Rubio. He must be assisting on everyone else's great D when he is on the floor while ignoring his own man. There's a reason why there are still calls for better defensive metrics in the NBA.
1. This post ignores the fact that Walker's been insanely good after the All-Star break and especially the past three games before last night's. He's riding hot. He's not a bum.
2. Walker scored 34 and yet somehow Rubio was the more impactful player with his measly 10/10/5 line. How is it possible that Rubio's +/- was 7 points higher than Walker's and yet they were on the floor together pretty much the whole game.
Some of the credit for that has to go to the big 3. KAT, Wig, and Zach made plays / shots.
Q12543 wrote:Rubio led the Wolves last night in +/- with +15 and also had 10 assists and only 1 turnover. He helped fuel that big comeback after our bench dug a hole. He made a couple mistakes guarding Walker, but that dude caught fire and was hitting closely contested 3's. That shit happens in the NBA.
I think Doper has joined the club Alex and Porkchop started, where no matter what the overarching data states, every missed layup, outside shot, or defensive assignment needs to be pointed out as the reason he's such an inferior player.
"Such an inferior player" has never been the argument I made. He got torched, he gets torched a lot by superior PGs. I can't praise his intangibles and ignore his tangibles in the same breath. An individual's contribution to team defense is still not accurately assessed by the metrics available to us. That is my point. I don't buy the argument that someone gets torched one on one and is still a great team defender. You have confidence that these metrics show otherwise, I respect that I just don't agree.
Q12543 wrote:Rubio led the Wolves last night in +/- with +15 and also had 10 assists and only 1 turnover. He helped fuel that big comeback after our bench dug a hole. He made a couple mistakes guarding Walker, but that dude caught fire and was hitting closely contested 3's. That shit happens in the NBA.
I think Doper has joined the club Alex and Porkchop started, where no matter what the overarching data states, every missed layup, outside shot, or defensive assignment needs to be pointed out as the reason he's such an inferior player.
"Such an inferior player" has never been the argument I made. He got torched, he gets torched a lot by superior PGs. I can't praise his intangibles and ignore his tangibles in the same breath. An individual's contribution to team defense is still not accurately assessed by the metrics available to us. That is my point. I don't buy the argument that someone gets torched one on one and is still a great team defender. You have confidence that these metrics show otherwise, I respect that I just don't agree.
I'm more in the middle on this but there are times I see Rubio getting "burned" are times teammates don't do what they are supposed to do. If Rubio ices a guy and gets no help when he is playing a guy to that spot it's not his fault.
thedoper wrote:Are these Rubio's intangible qualities on D tonight?
Yes. in 35 minutes he played Wolves conceded 73 points. In 13 minutes with him on the bench Wolves conceded 35 points. You can see intangible qualities in almost every game if you open your mind to it.
To many people take the blue pill.
Viagra?
LOL, I was thinking Matrix, but if the shoe fits....
thedoper wrote:Are these Rubio's intangible qualities on D tonight?
Yes. in 35 minutes he played Wolves conceded 73 points. In 13 minutes with him on the bench Wolves conceded 35 points. You can see intangible qualities in almost every game if you open your mind to it.
To many people take the blue pill.
Viagra?
LOL, I was thinking Matrix, but if the shoe fits....
I thought of the Matrix first but I thought my comment was fun and somewhat fitting... Lol
Also for the red and Blue pills it's like when I look at the political map for some odd reason I can never remember which color means what.
thedoper wrote:Are these Rubio's intangible qualities on D tonight?
Yes. in 35 minutes he played Wolves conceded 73 points. In 13 minutes with him on the bench Wolves conceded 35 points. You can see intangible qualities in almost every game if you open your mind to it.
And Walker's 34? Almost half of those 73 pts were on Rubio. He must be assisting on everyone else's great D when he is on the floor while ignoring his own man. There's a reason why there are still calls for better defensive metrics in the NBA.
1. This post ignores the fact that Walker's been insanely good after the All-Star break and especially the past three games before last night's. He's riding hot. He's not a bum.
2. Walker scored 34 and yet somehow Rubio was the more impactful player with his measly 10/10/5 line. How is it possible that Rubio's +/- was 7 points higher than Walker's and yet they were on the floor together pretty much the whole game.
Some of the credit for that has to go to the big 3. KAT, Wig, and Zach made plays / shots.
I think the bigger picture here is that those 3 (and everyone else not named KG) have an individual minus net rating when Rubio sits and are individually a plus when he is on the floor. It's quite impressive and justifiably should put any discussion of moving on from Ricky a question for a much later date, if ever.
Q12543 wrote:Rubio led the Wolves last night in +/- with +15 and also had 10 assists and only 1 turnover. He helped fuel that big comeback after our bench dug a hole. He made a couple mistakes guarding Walker, but that dude caught fire and was hitting closely contested 3's. That shit happens in the NBA.
I think Doper has joined the club Alex and Porkchop started, where no matter what the overarching data states, every missed layup, outside shot, or defensive assignment needs to be pointed out as the reason he's such an inferior player.
"Such an inferior player" has never been the argument I made. He got torched, he gets torched a lot by superior PGs. I can't praise his intangibles and ignore his tangibles in the same breath. An individual's contribution to team defense is still not accurately assessed by the metrics available to us. That is my point. I don't buy the argument that someone gets torched one on one and is still a great team defender. You have confidence that these metrics show otherwise, I respect that I just don't agree.
....yet we never hear from you when he helps contain the likes of John Wall or Kyle Lowry. Do those games not count?
Containing the NBA's top PGs requires a team effort. Rubio is not a perfect defender, but he is a plus defender.
Every time the Rubio issue is brought up I think it is fair to say that I don't hate him or his game. I feel quite simply that his weaknesses are as significant as his strengths which is why I agree on the assessment that he is somewhere around the 15th best PG in the league. I can reiterate scenarios where I think we could or may want to explore other options than Rubio.
1. Signing or trading for a PG who is better than Rubio - If we could acquire a top 10 pg I say go for it. Right now Conley is the only guy I've mentioned who may be realistic in this area and who I would move Rubio for
2. Drafting a top tier PG and let him develop along side Rubio - I am all in on this even to solve the issue of having no viable back up (sorry Tyus)
I've never said he sucks. All around he is very average, being great at some things and being not so great at others.
Q12543 wrote:Rubio led the Wolves last night in +/- with +15 and also had 10 assists and only 1 turnover. He helped fuel that big comeback after our bench dug a hole. He made a couple mistakes guarding Walker, but that dude caught fire and was hitting closely contested 3's. That shit happens in the NBA.
I think Doper has joined the club Alex and Porkchop started, where no matter what the overarching data states, every missed layup, outside shot, or defensive assignment needs to be pointed out as the reason he's such an inferior player.
"Such an inferior player" has never been the argument I made. He got torched, he gets torched a lot by superior PGs. I can't praise his intangibles and ignore his tangibles in the same breath. An individual's contribution to team defense is still not accurately assessed by the metrics available to us. That is my point. I don't buy the argument that someone gets torched one on one and is still a great team defender. You have confidence that these metrics show otherwise, I respect that I just don't agree.
....yet we never hear from you when he helps contain the likes of John Wall or Kyle Lowry. Do those games not count?
Containing the NBA's top PGs requires a team effort. Rubio is not a perfect defender, but he is a plus defender.
I agree that he is overall a good defender. I think his one on one D is a little to lenient for the shooting at the PG position still. But when some of the advanced defensive stats put him in the top 2 or 3 pgs I scratch my head a bit. That is my point. DRPM has Wes Johnson above Lebron James. I just can't quite by it yet without some better context.
Wes Johnson doesn't play against the same level competition (bench player) nor the same amount of minutes as LeBron James. I think you, the person doing the analyzing, have to account for context on your own.
