Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:The slagging of Dieng is getting old. Why can't the "ground-bound powerhouse" be a 3rd big off the bench when a game calls for that type of player?
I think because we hope to have an upgrade from Dieng. He is the weak link in the starting lineup. Moving him to the bench would be a good thing for this team.
But he's not really that weak of a link. He has his bad days, but so do LaVine, Wiggins and even Rubio. Dieng is a scorer who gets his points without plays run for him and does so on good 60% TS efficiency. He's a good fifth starter who doesn't get in other players ways offensively and get hustle points on defense.
Plus with the amount of small ball being played in the NBA, investing heavily in that PF position is bad business. A team like Warriors (and not only them) goes to their deadly small ball lineup and your secondary big has to ride pine.
I'd rather invest in younger "Tay Prince" who can match up vs big SF and small ball lineups at PF.
And since Deing is a dual position player he's also a better player in today's NBA than a strict PF. Strict PFs are very flawed players nowadays
Abe any way you could post the wolves rebounding difference when Lavine was first put into the starting lineup. (I would look but I need to get to work) but the reason I ask is because could it be a combination of fatigue and lack of strength. Now Gorgui and Towns need to get stronger and better at positioning for rebounds and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But I would like to know the difference right when Lavine entered the lineup because I am guessing Gorgui and Towns are starting to become fatigued playing close to 40 minutes a night for the last month and a half, compared to last night where we were going against lesser talented players but a lot fresher legs. I just think it is a combination of things.
Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:The slagging of Dieng is getting old. Why can't the "ground-bound powerhouse" be a 3rd big off the bench when a game calls for that type of player?
I think because we hope to have an upgrade from Dieng. He is the weak link in the starting lineup. Moving him to the bench would be a good thing for this team.
But he's not really that weak of a link. He has his bad days, but so do LaVine, Wiggins and even Rubio. Dieng is a scorer who gets his points without plays run for him and does so on good 60% TS efficiency. He's a good fifth starter who doesn't get in other players ways offensively and get hustle points on defense.
Plus with the amount of small ball being played in the NBA, investing heavily in that PF position is bad business. A team like Warriors (and not only them) goes to their deadly small ball lineup and your secondary big has to ride pine.
I'd rather invest in younger "Tay Prince" who can match up vs big SF and small ball lineups at PF.
And since Deing is a dual position player he's also a better player in today's NBA than a strict PF. Strict PFs are very flawed players nowadays
All true... but Dieng is still the weakest player in the core moving forward (potentially). And teams should always be looking to improve.
Is he good enough now for a young 55-loss team? Yes.
Will he be good enough to be a starter for a 50- or 55-win team down the line? That's when the questions surface. And his versatility makes him a good candidate as a 1st guy of the bench sort... whether the Wolves opt for a big bruiser at the 4 or if they play the super duper small game with a Harrison Barnes or Marvin Williams type.
kekgeek1 wrote:Abe any way you could post the wolves rebounding difference when Lavine was first put into the starting lineup. (I would look but I need to get to work) but the reason I ask is because could it be a combination of fatigue and lack of strength. Now Gorgui and Towns need to get stronger and better at positioning for rebounds and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But I would like to know the difference right when Lavine entered the lineup because I am guessing Gorgui and Towns are starting to become fatigued playing close to 40 minutes a night for the last month and a half, compared to last night where we were going against lesser talented players but a lot fresher legs. I just think it is a combination of things.
No. I'm too lazy.
But fatigue might have something to do with it. And that paper thin bench can't be helping either.
Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:The slagging of Dieng is getting old. Why can't the "ground-bound powerhouse" be a 3rd big off the bench when a game calls for that type of player?
I think because we hope to have an upgrade from Dieng. He is the weak link in the starting lineup. Moving him to the bench would be a good thing for this team.
But he's not really that weak of a link. He has his bad days, but so do LaVine, Wiggins and even Rubio. Dieng is a scorer who gets his points without plays run for him and does so on good 60% TS efficiency. He's a good fifth starter who doesn't get in other players ways offensively and get hustle points on defense.
Plus with the amount of small ball being played in the NBA, investing heavily in that PF position is bad business. A team like Warriors (and not only them) goes to their deadly small ball lineup and your secondary big has to ride pine.
I'd rather invest in younger "Tay Prince" who can match up vs big SF and small ball lineups at PF.
And since Deing is a dual position player he's also a better player in today's NBA than a strict PF. Strict PFs are very flawed players nowadays
Brooklyn,
I think you are reading into these comments as negative shots at Dieng. I don't see that at all. The FACT is that he is, and always will be, a weak defender against bulk. And you ask why we can't have this bulky guy come off the bench....the answer is because TYPICALLY, your starters play 30+ minutes and bench guys 15 or so. With weak rebounding from the SG and SF spot, we absolutely have to have high-volume rebounding capability from our starters at PF and C. While Towns gets a lot of rebounds, he still struggles with size, and as someone mentioned, seems to be wearing down significantly (as should have been suspected). All that said, I LOVE Dieng! He is a great team guy, and a very good player. But while he has a solid skillset, we absolutely need a powerhouse guy on the frontline (as a starter) if we plan to have Wiggins and Lavine start for this team (which seems the logical play). The negative rebounding numbers seen earlier in this post aren't going away with experience alone. We need help in both the starting lineup as well as off the bench to reverse that trend.
Brooklyn_Wolves wrote:The slagging of Dieng is getting old. Why can't the "ground-bound powerhouse" be a 3rd big off the bench when a game calls for that type of player?
I think because we hope to have an upgrade from Dieng. He is the weak link in the starting lineup. Moving him to the bench would be a good thing for this team.
But he's not really that weak of a link. He has his bad days, but so do LaVine, Wiggins and even Rubio. Dieng is a scorer who gets his points without plays run for him and does so on good 60% TS efficiency. He's a good fifth starter who doesn't get in other players ways offensively and get hustle points on defense.
Plus with the amount of small ball being played in the NBA, investing heavily in that PF position is bad business. A team like Warriors (and not only them) goes to their deadly small ball lineup and your secondary big has to ride pine.
I'd rather invest in younger "Tay Prince" who can match up vs big SF and small ball lineups at PF.
And since Deing is a dual position player he's also a better player in today's NBA than a strict PF. Strict PFs are very flawed players nowadays
Yep. People continue to under appreciate Dieng. He's 3rd on the team in PER and Win Shares behind KAT and Rubio. And he's 2nd on the team in VORP. His strengths > than his weaknesses. The only place I ever hear concerns about his defense is on this board. Most broadcasters compliment him repeatedly on the defensive side. Yes, it's fun to watch a big guy knock people around like Pek did. But how long does it take a team to adjust around someone who's only good at "not getting pushed around" aka Jeff Adrien? I agree that a bench type bruiser that can be subbed for either Dieng or KAT is all that's needed. Bjelica showed some rebounding ability earlier in the year. Euro MVP needs to get back on track. Between Belly and a defensive bench big - I think they'd be fine as that would give them some match up options.
Whether or not the team can rebound. Or even win consistently with the current lineup is secondary at the moment. The Wolves are fun again. Remember when I was posting threads about the team failing to reach 100 points for 11 straight games? Those days are seemingly long gone...
From Zach Lowe:
Current Wolves starters: 116.4 points/100 possessions (would beat any team #), +5.5 margin/100 possessions. (Just ignore the defense)
Yep. People continue to under appreciate Dieng. He's 3rd on the team in PER and Win Shares behind KAT and Rubio. And he's 2nd on the team in VORP. His strengths > than his weaknesses. The only place I ever hear concerns about his defense is on this board. Most broadcasters compliment him repeatedly on the defensive side. Yes, it's fun to watch a big guy knock people around like Pek did. But how long does it take a team to adjust around someone who's only good at "not getting pushed around" aka Jeff Adrien? I agree that a bench type bruiser that can be subbed for either Dieng or KAT is all that's needed. Bjelica showed some rebounding ability earlier in the year. Euro MVP needs to get back on track. Between Belly and a defensive bench big - I think they'd be fine as that would give them some match up options.
I completely agree. Dieng/Towns looks fine to me and KAT will get stronger and make it more formidable. We need situation role players off the bench. Bjelica can be that lite PF to go against small ball lineups. We need a bruiser off the bench, ideally a PF/C type so he can be good match for both KAT and Dieng and also play center next to Belly.
Candidates for this role are: Lavoy Allen (very good role player), Jordan Hill, Kyle O'Quinn, T.Robinson, Lauvergne, There's also Noah and Bismack but I question the cost or availability.
I have never been a big Dieng fan, but he is part of the solution here. He is one of the 5 guys we shouldn't move, but him and to a lesser extent Rubio seem like the guys that could change before this team to reach its potential.
bleedspeed177 wrote:I have never been a big Dieng fan, but he is part of the solution here. He is one of the 5 guys we shouldn't move, but him and to a lesser extent Rubio seem like the guys that could change before this team to reach its potential.
The thing with Dieng is he would be a great first big off the bench so he could change in that way. I don't see Rubio playing second fiddle IMO, so it's either starter or trade with him.
