Let Me Be The First

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Rondo won it in 2008 next to 3 HOF's. Stop using him as a comparison. The league's changed since Rondo and Fisher won titles. The PG's representing the West the last 4 years straight have been Steph, Parker twice and Westbrook and guess who the PG's of the top 5 teams in the league this year are? Steph, Parker, Westbrook, Kyrie and CP3. That's the change in the league since '08. The PG's for the top 5 teams in '08 were Rondo, Billiups, Fisher, CP3 and Parker. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Rondo, Fisher, Billups aren't better than Steph, Westbrook and Kyrie by a wide margin. It's a different league. We're in the golden era of PG's and are keeping our mediocre one with the expectation that eventually his teammates will be the ones to develop and be the primary reason we win games instead of just trying to get a better PG. Why is it fine Rubio stays as the role player while his teammates attain higher levels of play? He makes more money than all of them combined. He's not paid like an elite role player so if he doesn't improve he has to go because he's making too much for what he's worth.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

The last 10 NBA champion pg

Curry
Parker (3)
Chalmers (2)
JJ Barea
Derrick Fisher (2)
Jason Williams
Rondo

Now I am also have my doubts on ricky but the pg positive dosen't have to be great to win it all. All ricky needs to do is sit 3's at a respectable rate. Screw everything else, just practice threes so if you are left open you can make them pay. IMO ricky has 2 years to improve his 3pt shot if not he needs to be replaced

How many of those guys were playing with superstars? And how many players got 7 years to figure their shot out?

How many of those guys were playing with superstars? You realize that nobody expects Rubio to be *the* superstar, right? Towns and Wiggins are supposed to be the heavy lifters. Rubio can be an elite role player on a title winner.

I feel like elite role player is an oxymoron. When Ricky was injured and this team was losing all those games everyone on here said if Rubio had been healthy things would've been different. Well he's healthy playing with the most talented team he's had around him and they're still losing at a healthy clip. So is he the difference between wins and losses or bad losses and close losses? Your not elite anything if you make 2 baskets in 60 minutes of play the last two games

Rubio's not going to put the team on his back and carry them to the playoffs. He's not capable of doing that, and nobody has said that he can do that, but he DOES make a substantial positive difference when he's on the floor. There really is no refuting that at this point. Right now, he's the difference between semi-competitive basketball and us getting blown out nightly. Perhaps his impact can be even greater when he's surrounded by other veteran players who have less weaknesses in their game. Right now, we're a very young and inexperienced team. You're a fool IF you believe that Rubio is supposed to be the guy that turns the entire franchise around. That's not reality, nor has it been what we expected from him.

I don't know. I would have to say your record would have to be at least be .500 if you wanna use the word substantial. I doubt there are more then 2 or 3 starting point guards out there who aren't rookies, that have a worse career then Rubio. Is it all on Rubio? No. But saying someone makes a substantial difference for a constant lottery team makes no sense

[AbeVigodaLive]

The last 10 NBA champion pg

Curry
Parker (3)
Chalmers (2)
JJ Barea
Derrick Fisher (2)
Jason Williams
Rondo

Now I am also have my doubts on ricky but the pg positive dosen't have to be great to win it all. All ricky needs to do is sit 3's at a respectable rate. Screw everything else, just practice threes so if you are left open you can make them pay. IMO ricky has 2 years to improve his 3pt shot if not he needs to be replaced

Do you really believe the ball was in Chalmers, Fisher's, and Barea's hands at crunch time? C'mon man.

LeBron James, D. Wade and Kobe Bryant explain Chalmers, Barea/Kidd and Williams. A ball-dominant creating wing makes an old school facilitating PG largely unnecessary. Rondo played with 3 HOF players... and the Lakers approach daring him to shoot became a legit issue in those games. Remember, Kobe Bryant was sagging off Rondo and just clogged up the lane daring him to shoot. The Mavericks were another vet-laden team that was also better as a collection of guys who just knew what they were doing.

Is Rubio more like Rondo and Kidd? Ok. Now... is the rest of the team anything remotely like those Celtics or Mavs?

At this moment hell no, but if the wolves ever want to win a championship a combination of wiggins, towns, lavine and the 1st round pick have to be at that HOF level.

If you put rondo on a team with 1st year kg, and 2nd year Allen and pierce they are not in the championship discussion.

That is why I said he needs to improve his 3pt shot and that is it. IMO he has 2 years to do it, if he does he is more than fine to be the starting pg on a possible championship team is not he has to go

He hasn't improved it in 5+ years. I don't see why anybody would remain hopeful at this point...

[TXviking [enjin:6602528]]

First off, let me set my feelings up front. I feel it is best to move on from Rubio while he STILL has trade value. I'm not saying dump him whatever you can receive, but trade him now for a position of need while he still has value.

With that said, please answer where you think we could receive a equal value in trade. Team and player. Sign and trade will be options this off-season.

[Phenom]

I would love to see the Wolves go the development route on this one. I would hate to see them move on from such a talent without maximizing opportunity. I've been told by my television that Ricky's shooting numbers drop substantially from the 1st quarter to the end of the game. I think that is quite telling. I would love to see Ricky develop his endurance and body, specifically his lower body this next offseason. He has been rehabbing and resting his lower body for the better part of his NBA career. I can understand moving on from Ricky at some point but if we are worried about how he will perform when the team is ready to contend, there isn't a pressing need to move on yet. I'd like to see it through with him and see the Wolves be a professional organization for once instead of letting another organization reap the benefits like usual.

So you think it's Ricky body letting him down late in games, not defenses playing him differently ?

I don't see how the defense giving him open jumpers makes it harder for him unless he is incredibly mentally weak.

Well he passes up open shots, so yeah his confidence is shot. Mentally week? It's possible.

It is very possible. It is also possible that if he takes the time to build his base up he will have the added endurance he needs to match his late game percentages up with his early game percentages. And this isn't absolving Ricky of anything. While he has had lower body injuries that have kept him shelved for long periods of time, he also could have been getting stronger other times. Either way, he is having a healthy season now and hopefully he spends next offseason getting stronger.

And I still do not see how defenses giving him open shots makes it harder for him.

[AbeVigodaLive]

First off, let me set my feelings up front. I feel it is best to move on from Rubio while he STILL has trade value. I'm not saying dump him whatever you can receive, but trade him now for a position of need while he still has value.

With that said, please answer where you think we could receive a equal value in trade. Team and player. Sign and trade will be options this off-season.

As I've noted... the list might be pretty small.

(1) I just don't think there's going to a huge market for him considering there are already so many good PGs out there. (2) Some teams just don't want a 35% fg shooting PG who shoots worse in the 4th quarter. Not necessarily even a knock on Rubio... they just run offenses or have personnel that need something different from the point. (3) Some teams won't want to take that contract when there are so many other passable guys out there for a lot less money.

[MikkeMan]

I agree with Cool that it might be impossible to win championship with Rubio as starting point guard. Even Spain has not win any tournament with Rubio as starter and typically his weaknesses have been badly exposed in elimination game. For example 2013 Eurobasket semifinal game against France Rubio had 2 pts, 1 asts, 4 TOs with 1/4 shooting in 15 minutes. 2014 World championships Spain lost quarter final game against France and Rubio had just 4 pts, 1 asts, 1 TOs with 1/7 shooting in 27 minutes.

So if other teams are able to expose Rubio's lack of shooting in international games, I have hard time to believe that NBA teams would not be able to do same in best of seven playoff series.

But since Wolves are still so far from the state where they could actually win playoff series, I think it might make sense to keep Rubio because he makes team at least competitive and playing competitive games will be better for developing our young core. But of course if we can trade Rubio for some other point guard that would be better fit for this team, I would be ready to do that.

What people here would think about trading Rubio to Miami for Dragic? Dragic seems to be bad fit in Miami because he flourishes mainly in open court and Miami veteran team plays really slow pace. Dragic signed big contract last summer and he is currently having at least statistically worst year for 4 seasons. I know that this trade would be risky since Dragic has one year longer contract and he has basically had just one really great season. But Dragic would be very good open court player that could be great fit for playing with Wiggins, Lavine and Muhammad. Since Hornacek was fired, maybe Wolves could also hire him for their coach and he could get 2nd coach of the year award next season by playing uptempo game.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I agree with Cool that it might be impossible to win championship with Rubio as starting point guard. Even Spain has not win any tournament with Rubio as starter and typically his weaknesses have been badly exposed in elimination game. For example 2013 Eurobasket semifinal game against France Rubio had 2 pts, 1 asts, 4 TOs with 1/4 shooting in 15 minutes. 2014 World championships Spain lost quarter final game against France and Rubio had just 4 pts, 1 asts, 1 TOs with 1/7 shooting in 27 minutes.

So if other teams are able to expose Rubio's lack of shooting in international games, I have hard time to believe that NBA teams would not be able to do same in best of seven playoff series.

But since Wolves are still so far from the state where they could actually win playoff series, I think it might make sense to keep Rubio because he makes team at least competitive and playing competitive games will be better for developing our young core. But of course if we can trade Rubio for some other point guard that would be better fit for this team, I would be ready to do that.

What people here would think about trading Rubio to Miami for Dragic? Dragic seems to be bad fit in Miami because he flourishes mainly in open court and Miami veteran team plays really slow pace. Dragic signed big contract last summer and he is currently having at least statistically worst year for 4 seasons. I know that this trade would be risky since Dragic has one year longer contract and he has basically had just one really great season. But Dragic would be very good open court player that could be great fit for playing with Wiggins, Lavine and Muhammad. Since Hornacek was fired, maybe Wolves could also hire him for their coach and he could get 2nd coach of the year award next season by playing uptempo game.

That's an interesting proposition, and one that seems fair on the surface. His age and contract length make me a bit nervous....but he is certainly the offensive PG we have asked for (although having a bit of a down year). Wonder why he never gets to the line anymore? Is it a symptom of diminishing skills, or just the offense in Miami? He used to be very good in the area....but this year he is not getting there at all.

[Coolbreeze44]

I agree with Cool that it might be impossible to win championship with Rubio as starting point guard. Even Spain has not win any tournament with Rubio as starter and typically his weaknesses have been badly exposed in elimination game. For example 2013 Eurobasket semifinal game against France Rubio had 2 pts, 1 asts, 4 TOs with 1/4 shooting in 15 minutes. 2014 World championships Spain lost quarter final game against France and Rubio had just 4 pts, 1 asts, 1 TOs with 1/7 shooting in 27 minutes.

So if other teams are able to expose Rubio's lack of shooting in international games, I have hard time to believe that NBA teams would not be able to do same in best of seven playoff series.

But since Wolves are still so far from the state where they could actually win playoff series, I think it might make sense to keep Rubio because he makes team at least competitive and playing competitive games will be better for developing our young core. But of course if we can trade Rubio for some other point guard that would be better fit for this team, I would be ready to do that.

What people here would think about trading Rubio to Miami for Dragic? Dragic seems to be bad fit in Miami because he flourishes mainly in open court and Miami veteran team plays really slow pace. Dragic signed big contract last summer and he is currently having at least statistically worst year for 4 seasons. I know that this trade would be risky since Dragic has one year longer contract and he has basically had just one really great season. But Dragic would be very good open court player that could be great fit for playing with Wiggins, Lavine and Muhammad. Since Hornacek was fired, maybe Wolves could also hire him for their coach and he could get 2nd coach of the year award next season by playing uptempo game.

Mikke, I love the idea of Rubio for Dragic. I'd be all over that if Miami had interest. And when you think about it, why couldn't it work for both teams? Having Dragic would open things up for Wiggins, Zach, and Towns. Good suggestion.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'd rather have Rubio over Dragic right now myself. He's better than Dragic, four years younger and cheaper. I think that'd be a move that hurts us instead of helps.