Wiggins vs. Muhammad

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

OK, I'll admit up front that this is another "please play Muhammad" thread, but at least with a different angle. I have linked Wiggins and Muhammad for awhile, and generally get a lot of "Shabazz is nowhere in Wiggins' league" responses. I disagree and see a lot of similarities in them. Both have been under the microscope since they were young teens, and both were the consensus best high school player in the country in their respective senior years. Both of them have gotten most of their minutes at SG in college, but are likely to get their NBA minutes at the SF position. Wiggins is more athletic, although not as explosive vertically as Shabazz, while Shabazz has better size. What I didn't realize until I looked it up yesterday, however, is that their freshman year college stats are almost identical. Check this out:

PPG RPG APG FG% 3-point %

Muhammad 17.9 5.2 .8 44.3 37.7
Wiggins 16.1 5.8 1.7 44.3 34.9


Astonishingly similar. Wiggins rebounds and assists a little better, while Muhammad scores a little better and shoots threes better. Their FG%s are identical. So why is Wiggins projected to be the 2nd or 3rd pick in a strong draft and likely to play a lot in his rookie NBA year, while Shabazz barely made it into the lottery in a weak draft and has played fewer minutes than any other healthy first rounder (except Dieng).

I think the answer lies in perceived character. While Wiggins has a good guy reputation, Muhammad carries character baggage related to the following:

1) His mild Tourette's Syndrome makes him somewhat reserved, which some perceive as surly
2) Last year we learned that he was a year older than we thought he was
3) He didn't celebrate Larry Drew's game winning shot enthusiastically enough
4) He snuck a woman into his room during the rookie initiation, in violation of NBA policy

My reaction to the above 4 grievances...for god's sake, get over it! He may not have exactly the personality that a Rick Adelman might like, but he can flat out score. And lack of bench scoring is the main reason our beloved Wolves have underachieved so drastically this year. By all reports, he may be the hardest working practice player on the team, and in the only game in which he has been given meaningful non-garbage minutes he showed an ability to score in the NBA at a rate similar to how he has scored at every other level.

My frustration with Adelman's stubbornness is at an all-time peak. His refusal to look within his roster for the solution to the horrible bench scoring that has held this team back is inexcusable. The mid-season all-star break is a time for reflection, and I'm hoping that Taylor, Saunders and Adelman are in agreement about what has to happen. More Muhammad, less Barea...or bye bye Rick.

Muhammad=Wiggins

But unfortunately, Adelman can't see it.

[Brandon BassHole [enjin:8183321]]

What frustrates me the most is that Robbie Hummel has 250 more minutes than him, has played in 13 more games and even started 2 games over Shabazz...

C'mon man. You can not justify that.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

What frustrates me the most is that Robbie Hummel has 250 more minutes than him, has played in 13 more games and even started 2 games over Shabazz...

C'mon man. You can not justify that.

No, you can't justify it. My theory is that Robbie is just more Rick's kind of guy.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Aside from the fact that I have seen Wiggins get a layup attempt while jumping from basically the free throw line over a defender, which Bazz couldn't do if he wanted to, Wiggins is already considered a very good defender in college. He projects to be a very good defender right out of the gate. Bazz was a non-factor on D in college and defense wasn't in the scouting report for him going into the draft or he would have gone much higher regardless of the off-court issues. Wiggins is a way better athlete than Bazz and if you watch him play, you would see that he can play way above the rim where Bazz plays well below the rim. He didn't get 19 rebounds in a game because of luck. The stats may be close, but the eye test is not. The only thing Wiggins is missing is a consistent jump shot and some more floor space to get to the basket which is something the NBA provides and college does not. If you watch Wiggins play, it looks like he isn't doing anything on offense and then you look at the box score and he'll already have 15 points. That is the sign of a superstar in the making. Meanwhile you knew when Bazz was scoring because it took him almost as many shots as the actual points he was scoring. One is a black hole on offense while the other scores within the flow of the offense. That makes a huge difference. I understand the want to play Bazz, but I don't see Bazz in the same league as Wiggins considering how they both look playing in college. Bazz dropped in the draft because of his play in college and Wiggins isn't doing the same in what is considered to be a much stronger draft, so Bazz does not equal Wiggins.

[Lipoli390]

Shabazz is a one-way (offense-only), one-handed (can't dribble or shoot effectively with his right hand), one-directional (can only go left effectively), unathletic (relative to Wiggens and most top NBA players) player without NBA 3-point range. Shabazz put up good numbers in college by overpowering players at his position with his size. He can't do that in the NBA. I'd like to see Shabazz play more, but I can understand why Adelman, seeing Shabazz in practice every day, has kept him on the bench as we have been competing for a playoff spot. Adelman gave Budinger 20 minutes a game his rookie season so the truth is that Adelman will give rookies significant minutes and the fact he hasn't probably says more about Shabazz than it does about Adelman. Getting back to the initial post in this thread, I definitely don't see Shabazz in Wiggins class.

In my view, the question isn't whether Shabazz is as good as Wiggins; he's not and even if he is then the team that takes Wiggins in the draft will be making a big mistake. I can also understand why Adelman hasn't played Shabazz much. What I still can't understand or forgive is Flip's decision to draft him with McCollum, Hardaway, Burke, the Greek Freak and MCW on the board. That was my view last summer on draft day and history thus far supports that view.

[worldK]

Lip, glad to see you back posting..

I agree with khans and lips take. Wiggins is superior to bazz. I dont think stats are the way to go when evaluating college players.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Shabazz needs more minutes, but I won't go as far as to say he's Wiggins either.

[all_day_88 [enjin:6666373]]

your full of it lip I remember you being all about cj but that's as far as you should go with that

[bleedspeed]

In my view, the question isn't whether Shabazz is as good as Wiggins; he's not and even if he is then the team that takes Wiggins in the draft will be making a big mistake. I can also understand why Adelman hasn't played Shabazz much. What I still can't understand or forgive is Flip's decision to draft him with McCollum, Hardaway, Burke, the Greek Freak and MCW on the board. That was my view last summer on draft day and history thus far supports that view.

Damn - I didn't know we could have had MCW. Think of a backcourt with him and Rubio. That would have been crazy.

[bleedspeed]

I wonder if the Cavs would trade Waiters for Shabazz. Still would love to trade Martin for him.