Budinger/Prince

[Lipoli390]

I dont like this trade proposal at all. Flip better be smarter than this.

He's not!

[Squishypoo [enjin:6648839]]

Anyone catch the grizz vs NY game tonight? I must say i had my eye on prince,And he looked pretty good matched up on melo>>8-22 shooting night... Prince was allso 5-8 on shooting....Allen did not play Coach's Decision.

[worldK]

I dont like this trade proposal at all. Flip better be smarter than this.

He's not!

Were screwed then. I want no part of allen 5m deal for the next couple of seasons or prince 7m deal next season. As lip said, we are not making the playoffs even if we made this trade,we are not getting the prince that flip coached in detroit, its the prince that is on the decline. This is a band aid move that donesnt move the needle 1 bit.

Flip needs to man up and swallow his pride. He blew his chance this past offseason with the assets we have and the cap space he got with ak opting out. We have no desirable assets that teams will be willing to part a first round pick for outside of love-rubio-pek. In short,we are not 'winning' in any trade outside of the 3 players. That makes it difficult for us to improve on trades other than trading for a bunch of expirings and gaining cap space to use In free agency. Thats what i would do if i were flip, unload salary and use the savings well innthe off season.

Why not explore trading for expirings like a ben gordon, caron butler, richard jefferson,marvin williams,brandon rush? Bobcats need shooting and want to make the playoffs. Martin/mbah a moute for gordon? Are the bucks still interested in chase? Keep love rubio and pek. We dont need to tank, we are just not good enough to make the playoffs this season.

[TheFuture]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kjexkpa

Memphis receives: J.J. Barea, Chase Budinger, future MN 2nd round draft pick

Denver receives: LRMAM , Robbie Hummel, MN 2014 2nd round draft pick

Minnesota receives: (From Denver) Andre Miller, Anthony Randolph
(From Memphis) Tayshaun Prince, Tony Allen

(Denver may require a bit more, but I think LRMAM is a nice fit for them. They have plenty of scoring, but not much for defense at SF and PF behind Faried. Maybe Shved in place of Hummel? Or 2 2nd round picks?)

Minnesota's Roster:
PG - Rubio / Miller / Price
SG - Allen / Martin / Shved
SF - Brewer / Prince / Shabazz
PF - Love / Randolph / Cunningham
C - Pekovic / Turiaf / Dieng

I've noticed most posters believe Brewer should slide into the 2nd unit with Prince moving into a starter role, but I can't make sense with taking out the momentum boost supplied by the Love/Brewer pairing. I can also see Allen fairing well in the cherry pick game. All in all, I think both our 1st and 2nd units become much better, much more balanced. I'd be all for it. Yes, we are lacking a playmaker at the wing position, but pound the ball inside with Pek and Love early and often. That will open up Brewer and Allen for the kick out 3 point set shots, which both of them are able to shoot at a decent enough rate to be respected. Then, our 2nd unit comes in and provides an extreme change of pace. 3 perimeter players able to score the ball, decent perimeter defense, and above average interior defense. Finally, a rather complete team. Also, we'd have 12.2 million in expiring contracts from Miller and Prince next year. So if it did not work out the 2nd half of this year, and the 1st half of next year, we'd have an opportunity to move them for something else.

[worldK]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kjexkpa

Memphis receives: J.J. Barea, Chase Budinger, future MN 2nd round draft pick

Denver receives: LRMAM , Robbie Hummel, MN 2014 2nd round draft pick

Minnesota receives: (From Denver) Andre Miller, Anthony Randolph
(From Memphis) Tayshaun Prince, Tony Allen

(Denver may require a bit more, but I think LRMAM is a nice fit for them. They have plenty of scoring, but not much for defense at SF and PF behind Faried. Maybe Shved in place of Hummel? Or 2 2nd round picks?)

Minnesota's Roster:
PG - Rubio / Miller / Price
SG - Allen / Martin / Shved
SF - Brewer / Prince / Shabazz
PF - Love / Randolph / Cunningham
C - Pekovic / Turiaf / Dieng

I've noticed most posters believe Brewer should slide into the 2nd unit with Prince moving into a starter role, but I can't make sense with taking out the momentum boost supplied by the Love/Brewer pairing. I can also see Allen fairing well in the cherry pick game. All in all, I think both our 1st and 2nd units become much better, much more balanced. I'd be all for it. Yes, we are lacking a playmaker at the wing position, but pound the ball inside with Pek and Love early and often. That will open up Brewer and Allen for the kick out 3 point set shots, which both of them are able to shoot at a decent enough rate to be respected. Then, our 2nd unit comes in and provides an extreme change of pace. 3 perimeter players able to score the ball, decent perimeter defense, and above average interior defense. Finally, a rather complete team. Also, we'd have 12.2 million in expiring contracts from Miller and Prince next year. So if it did not work out the 2nd half of this year, and the 1st half of next year, we'd have an opportunity to move them for something else.

Denver wont do that. They have faried,hickson, arthur, mozgof, mcgee, chandler, hamilton and gallo as their sf pf and c. Mbah a moute does nothing for them.

Also, you mentioned that if it dont work next season we can trade prince/miller expirings. The thing is, they wont be worth much by that time and it will be too late. We need to start next season strong to have a chance to retain love. Making a mid season trade next season with prince and miller's expiring means we are in trouble.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Come on guys...please don't analyze this trade based on whether it gets us to the playoffs this year or not. This club is 6 games behind good teams that are playing well, has two starters not ready to go tonight, and has a difficult schedule facing them. There isn't a reasonable trade out there that gives us a chance of making the playoffs this year, so please give up that dream. This trade needs to be analyzed based on whether it makes us better beyond 2014.

So many on this board have complained about Flip locking us into $5 million deals for non-starters. Now he makes a move to get rid of a couple, and the trade is criticized. Chase Budinger is a second round pick who has never been an NBA starter and is coming off two knee surgeries, and someone is willing to take his contract off of us. We should be on our knees thanking Memphis. Yes, we take back Prince's bloated contract for one year, but I suspect that if he doesn't shine (and he won't), he will be amnestied...providing the Wolves with huge cap space. And yes, Allen is signed for a year longer than Chase, but unlike Chase, he is an elite defender whose injuries are not career-limiting. I would argue that Tony Allen is a bargain at $5 million per year, especially compared to Chase.

Beyond that, we on this board have complained more about JJ Barea than anybody this year. And now we have found a club that overvalues him because he has played two stellar games against them, and is willing to take him off our hands. Again, I am on my knees thanking Memphis. How much more fun does watching the Wolves become the rest of the year, and next, if we don't have to watch JJ dribbling around playing hero ball?

This deal does the following:

1) Provides much needed cap space after they amnesty Prince
2) Gets rid of the much hated JJ
3) Allows Flip to eliminate one of his 2013 mistakes by getting rid of Chase Budinger's bad contract
4) Adds one of the NBA's best wing defenders.

Again, I have to believe Memphis gets its head out of its arse and backs away from this rumored deal, but if somehow their drugs don't wear off by Thursday, I think Flip has made about the best deal that he can. We're not going anywhere this year, but we will be better without JJ and an injured, 35% shooting Budinger. And amnestying Prince gives us enormous cap space to add one more key piece to pair with our nucleus.

Go Flip!

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Camden: Keep in mind that is not a "to date" total. If you make that trade 50 games in, you aren't 3 games better, you're closer to one. Also keep in mind it is only based on PER's, not how often those guys will play based on who is already in front of them, and Martin IS better than Allen, so he's not playing THAT much. So it becomes $2m of more salary next season with MIN getting the worst player of the 4 and a backup SG. Do we get their 1st?

Either way you look at it, the difference in W/L on the trade machine was my point. And no, I'm not saying we should or shouldn't make any deal based off what the machine says. I just thought it was interesting how much worse it said Memphis got after the deal.

Personally, I don't care about PER, but I do get the machine uses that primarily. Agreed Martin is better, but I do think Allen would get about 23-25 minutes a night here regardless. Might be better that way too to keep them both healthy. All hypothetical as always.

I think it's sad, but if I wanted to, I probably could make a case (a weak one and a stretch) that Barea's the worst player in the trade and not Prince. That goes to show how much I think about JJ this year. Regardless of if Prince is the worst player, we'd also get the best player in the trade in Allen.

Ugh. We should have just traded for Courtney Lee.

I can actually help your argument a little. Barea is a minus 61 for the season when he is on the floor which is about 19min/game for each game MIN has played. Prince is a +41 and Allen +33 and they play a combined 37min/game over all of MEM's games. Budinger is +10, but has only played enough to average 6min/game through all of the games MIN has played. To give you an idea of where Prince/Allen are at, Brewer is a +262 playing about 67% of MIN's minutes (32 a game). So he's not better than Brewer, who isn't really that great, and Allen isn't better than Martin. So they are expensive reserves. And you can't pay Prince that kind of money to move the needle a point a game.

I think this is all Duffy. I think Holinger called him and said "Get Prince out of my life or I'm not signing any more of your players and one of your employees sons might have an accident" (to learn more, go to the BDA website). So Duffy does what he always does: Calls Flip and says "Remember those pictures of you I got the night they closed that bar on E-Block". And Flip said "What do I have to do".

Lol. Good post, Jason!

Thanks. Where have you been? If you continue to miss this much time, you may have to repeat this season.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Anyone catch the grizz vs NY game tonight? I must say i had my eye on prince,And he looked pretty good matched up on melo>>8-22 shooting night... Prince was allso 5-8 on shooting....Allen did not play Coach's Decision.

Is anybody else nervous that MEM thinks the best way to shop Allen is .... a DNP/CD?

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kjexkpa

Memphis receives: J.J. Barea, Chase Budinger, future MN 2nd round draft pick

Denver receives: LRMAM , Robbie Hummel, MN 2014 2nd round draft pick

Minnesota receives: (From Denver) Andre Miller, Anthony Randolph
(From Memphis) Tayshaun Prince, Tony Allen

(Denver may require a bit more, but I think LRMAM is a nice fit for them. They have plenty of scoring, but not much for defense at SF and PF behind Faried. Maybe Shved in place of Hummel? Or 2 2nd round picks?)

Minnesota's Roster:
PG - Rubio / Miller / Price
SG - Allen / Martin / Shved
SF - Brewer / Prince / Shabazz
PF - Love / Randolph / Cunningham
C - Pekovic / Turiaf / Dieng

I've noticed most posters believe Brewer should slide into the 2nd unit with Prince moving into a starter role, but I can't make sense with taking out the momentum boost supplied by the Love/Brewer pairing. I can also see Allen fairing well in the cherry pick game. All in all, I think both our 1st and 2nd units become much better, much more balanced. I'd be all for it. Yes, we are lacking a playmaker at the wing position, but pound the ball inside with Pek and Love early and often. That will open up Brewer and Allen for the kick out 3 point set shots, which both of them are able to shoot at a decent enough rate to be respected. Then, our 2nd unit comes in and provides an extreme change of pace. 3 perimeter players able to score the ball, decent perimeter defense, and above average interior defense. Finally, a rather complete team. Also, we'd have 12.2 million in expiring contracts from Miller and Prince next year. So if it did not work out the 2nd half of this year, and the 1st half of next year, we'd have an opportunity to move them for something else.

Denver wont do that. They have faried,hickson, arthur, mozgof, mcgee, chandler, hamilton and gallo as their sf pf and c. Mbah a moute does nothing for them.

Also, you mentioned that if it dont work next season we can trade prince/miller expirings. The thing is, they wont be worth much by that time and it will be too late. We need to start next season strong to have a chance to retain love. Making a mid season trade next season with prince and miller's expiring means we are in trouble.

As it turns out, most GM's are saying to themselves "Well, if he doesn't like it there, what makes me think he'll like it here?". A truly extraordinary day when you think about it. According to Hoopshype, DEN is not really getting any offers. That being said, based on this new info, I think DEN does that if MIN takes Arthur instead of Randolph.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Come on guys...please don't analyze this trade based on whether it gets us to the playoffs this year or not. This club is 6 games behind good teams that are playing well, has two starters not ready to go tonight, and has a difficult schedule facing them. There isn't a reasonable trade out there that gives us a chance of making the playoffs this year, so please give up that dream. This trade needs to be analyzed based on whether it makes us better beyond 2014.

So many on this board have complained about Flip locking us into $5 million deals for non-starters. Now he makes a move to get rid of a couple, and the trade is criticized. Chase Budinger is a second round pick who has never been an NBA starter and is coming off two knee surgeries, and someone is willing to take his contract off of us. We should be on our knees thanking Memphis. Yes, we take back Prince's bloated contract for one year, but I suspect that if he doesn't shine (and he won't), he will be amnestied...providing the Wolves with huge cap space. And yes, Allen is signed for a year longer than Chase, but unlike Chase, he is an elite defender whose injuries are not career-limiting. I would argue that Tony Allen is a bargain at $5 million per year, especially compared to Chase.

Beyond that, we on this board have complained more about JJ Barea than anybody this year. And now we have found a club that overvalues him because he has played two stellar games against them, and is willing to take him off our hands. Again, I am on my knees thanking Memphis. How much more fun does watching the Wolves become the rest of the year, and next, if we don't have to watch JJ dribbling around playing hero ball?

This deal does the following:

1) Provides much needed cap space after they amnesty Prince
2) Gets rid of the much hated JJ
3) Allows Flip to eliminate one of his 2013 mistakes by getting rid of Chase Budinger's bad contract
4) Adds one of the NBA's best wing defenders.

Again, I have to believe Memphis gets its head out of its arse and backs away from this rumored deal, but if somehow their drugs don't wear off by Thursday, I think Flip has made about the best deal that he can. We're not going anywhere this year, but we will be better without JJ and an injured, 35% shooting Budinger. And amnestying Prince gives us enormous cap space to add one more key piece to pair with our nucleus.

Go Flip!

A few things
1. Amnesty is only allowed on guys who were on your roster the day the lockout ended. Prince was a Piston, so that ship has sailed, PLUS ... MIN used theirs....on Darko. Bill Simmons pointed out in his last column how good it would have been if you could "trade" your amnesty. About 8 teams never used theirs. I would totally give OKC all 3 of this years 2nd's for their amnesty, then turn around, trade DC/Price/Hummel for bad contract and a first, and use it on that.

2. Funny story: MEM, with Prince playing the "3" in most of their top 20 lineup usage, allows 15.4 PER to opponents SF's. MIN? 14.0. So maybe MIN is Ok there. But Evanescense and Ken Jennings just called and said they appreciate you keeping 2004 alive. Then John Kerry called and said let it go.

3. You know Bud's not going to be injured forever, right? He has really played better the last 5 or so games, and this break gives him a little extra rest.

In my mind, the story of this season (IN THIS ORDER) is: 1)Bud's injury/Brewer's inability to score. 2) Getting nothing from the #11 pick in the draft (who's his agent again?) and 3) Trading DW for someone who is actually worse, and Barea's dropoff being #4. Miller for Barea solves this (maybe in time for the playoffs, maybe not), but the MEM deal doesn't.