Budinger/Prince

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

3. You know Bud's not going to be injured forever, right? He has really played better the last 5 or so games, and this break gives him a little extra rest.

Jason, agree with most of what you said, but this is simply not true. I have to assume that you simply reviewed his ppg to come to this conclusion. I have watched most games this year, including several of the last 5, and Chase has been brutal. In regards to ppg, he is certainly scoring more at 11 ppg over last 5.....on 10 shots per game! That is absolutely freakin brutal. He is shooting 37% during this time, which enters Rubio territory. He USED to be a good cutter, but his lateral quickness seems to be gone. While he may get better, he hasn't yet this year. He is simply getting more usage to get his inefficient numbers. If we can deal this guy, I jump at the chance.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

How about a different deal with Memphis:

Budinger / Barea / Cunningham
for
Prince / Ed Davis

I think this works better for a couple reasons. As discussed, Tony Allen, when healthy, has been an important piece for the Grizzlies. I am guessing they aren't dying to unload him. Prince is the guy they seemingly want to move. This offers them the opportunity to move Prince, and still obtain some decent depth on a team that has been hit with injuries throughout the year. While none of the guys we are dealing are great players, they certainly have value on a team that doesn't rely on them as heavily as we have been forced to this season. I actually like Ed Davis for the Wolves. While he won't knock your socks off, I have just always felt he is a solid bench guy that gives you a moderate amount of both defense and offense. He is an efficient big, and is a fairly solid defender. Better size than Dante. He is also up for an extension next year, which is actually not a bad thing as we can let him walk, or sign him for what should be a very moderate amount of money as Love's backup.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Come on guys...please don't analyze this trade based on whether it gets us to the playoffs this year or not. This club is 6 games behind good teams that are playing well, has two starters not ready to go tonight, and has a difficult schedule facing them. There isn't a reasonable trade out there that gives us a chance of making the playoffs this year, so please give up that dream. This trade needs to be analyzed based on whether it makes us better beyond 2014.

So many on this board have complained about Flip locking us into $5 million deals for non-starters. Now he makes a move to get rid of a couple, and the trade is criticized. Chase Budinger is a second round pick who has never been an NBA starter and is coming off two knee surgeries, and someone is willing to take his contract off of us. We should be on our knees thanking Memphis. Yes, we take back Prince's bloated contract for one year, but I suspect that if he doesn't shine (and he won't), he will be amnestied...providing the Wolves with huge cap space. And yes, Allen is signed for a year longer than Chase, but unlike Chase, he is an elite defender whose injuries are not career-limiting. I would argue that Tony Allen is a bargain at $5 million per year, especially compared to Chase.

Beyond that, we on this board have complained more about JJ Barea than anybody this year. And now we have found a club that overvalues him because he has played two stellar games against them, and is willing to take him off our hands. Again, I am on my knees thanking Memphis. How much more fun does watching the Wolves become the rest of the year, and next, if we don't have to watch JJ dribbling around playing hero ball?

This deal does the following:

1) Provides much needed cap space after they amnesty Prince
2) Gets rid of the much hated JJ
3) Allows Flip to eliminate one of his 2013 mistakes by getting rid of Chase Budinger's bad contract
4) Adds one of the NBA's best wing defenders.

Again, I have to believe Memphis gets its head out of its arse and backs away from this rumored deal, but if somehow their drugs don't wear off by Thursday, I think Flip has made about the best deal that he can. We're not going anywhere this year, but we will be better without JJ and an injured, 35% shooting Budinger. And amnestying Prince gives us enormous cap space to add one more key piece to pair with our nucleus.

Go Flip!

A few things
1. Amnesty is only allowed on guys who were on your roster the day the lockout ended. Prince was a Piston, so that ship has sailed, PLUS ... MIN used theirs....on Darko. Bill Simmons pointed out in his last column how good it would have been if you could "trade" your amnesty. About 8 teams never used theirs. I would totally give OKC all 3 of this years 2nd's for their amnesty, then turn around, trade DC/Price/Hummel for bad contract and a first, and use it on that.

2. Funny story: MEM, with Prince playing the "3" in most of their top 20 lineup usage, allows 15.4 PER to opponents SF's. MIN? 14.0. So maybe MIN is Ok there. But Evanescense and Ken Jennings just called and said they appreciate you keeping 2004 alive. Then John Kerry called and said let it go.

3. You know Bud's not going to be injured forever, right? He has really played better the last 5 or so games, and this break gives him a little extra rest.

In my mind, the story of this season (IN THIS ORDER) is: 1)Bud's injury/Brewer's inability to score. 2) Getting nothing from the #11 pick in the draft (who's his agent again?) and 3) Trading DW for someone who is actually worse, and Barea's dropoff being #4. Miller for Barea solves this (maybe in time for the playoffs, maybe not), but the MEM deal doesn't.

Jason, thanks for the education on amnesty. I had a feeling I was missing something because it hadn't been brought up, but I didn't have the missing piece. That makes the deal less attractive, but still good from our perspective I believe.

I also agree (optimistically) that Bud can come back from his knee surgeries, but we don't know for sure. We do know his ceiling though. There are reasons why he was a second round pick, and he will always be an NBA reserve and role player...not the kind of player that deserves a long-term $5 million contract, even if his knee issues don't continue to limit him. His recent 3-point success was inflated somewhat by a horrid Denver defense that left him wide open over and over again for practice 3-pointers. Even with them daring him to shoot, he still only made 4 out of his 13 shots for the night in his most recent game. And he continues to struggle in trying to cover the perimeter. I don't expect much back for the privilege of unloading JJ and Bud's bad contract, and I think Flip may have stumbled on about the best deal he can find. I'm still skeptical that it's going to happen though.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

3. You know Bud's not going to be injured forever, right? He has really played better the last 5 or so games, and this break gives him a little extra rest.

Jason, agree with most of what you said, but this is simply not true. I have to assume that you simply reviewed his ppg to come to this conclusion. I have watched most games this year, including several of the last 5, and Chase has been brutal. In regards to ppg, he is certainly scoring more at 11 ppg over last 5.....on 10 shots per game! That is absolutely freakin brutal. He is shooting 37% during this time, which enters Rubio territory. He USED to be a good cutter, but his lateral quickness seems to be gone. While he may get better, he hasn't yet this year. He is simply getting more usage to get his inefficient numbers. If we can deal this guy, I jump at the chance.

All I said was better. His first 5 games back, his PER was around 0 and his Roland was around -15. He's now around a 7 PER and a -9 Roland, so simple math tells us his last 5 have been around 14PER/-3Roland. Not exactly Lebron James, but he's still working through it, and MIA has been reluctant to include James in trade talks.

As far as him going Pick #40....do you really think Kahn made the right choice using the #28 pick for the 4th option from UNC rather than the 1st option from Arizona? Or, dare I say, the Stoudamire-sized PG from Syracuse? I admit that I am the biggest Chase admirer the Wolves board has ever seen, but I have never heard anyone say "yeah, #40 was about right" until now.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

Come on guys...please don't analyze this trade based on whether it gets us to the playoffs this year or not. This club is 6 games behind good teams that are playing well, has two starters not ready to go tonight, and has a difficult schedule facing them. There isn't a reasonable trade out there that gives us a chance of making the playoffs this year, so please give up that dream. This trade needs to be analyzed based on whether it makes us better beyond 2014.

So many on this board have complained about Flip locking us into $5 million deals for non-starters. Now he makes a move to get rid of a couple, and the trade is criticized. Chase Budinger is a second round pick who has never been an NBA starter and is coming off two knee surgeries, and someone is willing to take his contract off of us. We should be on our knees thanking Memphis. Yes, we take back Prince's bloated contract for one year, but I suspect that if he doesn't shine (and he won't), he will be amnestied...providing the Wolves with huge cap space. And yes, Allen is signed for a year longer than Chase, but unlike Chase, he is an elite defender whose injuries are not career-limiting. I would argue that Tony Allen is a bargain at $5 million per year, especially compared to Chase.

Beyond that, we on this board have complained more about JJ Barea than anybody this year. And now we have found a club that overvalues him because he has played two stellar games against them, and is willing to take him off our hands. Again, I am on my knees thanking Memphis. How much more fun does watching the Wolves become the rest of the year, and next, if we don't have to watch JJ dribbling around playing hero ball?

This deal does the following:

1) Provides much needed cap space after they amnesty Prince
2) Gets rid of the much hated JJ
3) Allows Flip to eliminate one of his 2013 mistakes by getting rid of Chase Budinger's bad contract
4) Adds one of the NBA's best wing defenders.

Again, I have to believe Memphis gets its head out of its arse and backs away from this rumored deal, but if somehow their drugs don't wear off by Thursday, I think Flip has made about the best deal that he can. We're not going anywhere this year, but we will be better without JJ and an injured, 35% shooting Budinger. And amnestying Prince gives us enormous cap space to add one more key piece to pair with our nucleus.

Go Flip!

A few things
1. Amnesty is only allowed on guys who were on your roster the day the lockout ended. Prince was a Piston, so that ship has sailed, PLUS ... MIN used theirs....on Darko. Bill Simmons pointed out in his last column how good it would have been if you could "trade" your amnesty. About 8 teams never used theirs. I would totally give OKC all 3 of this years 2nd's for their amnesty, then turn around, trade DC/Price/Hummel for bad contract and a first, and use it on that.

2. Funny story: MEM, with Prince playing the "3" in most of their top 20 lineup usage, allows 15.4 PER to opponents SF's. MIN? 14.0. So maybe MIN is Ok there. But Evanescense and Ken Jennings just called and said they appreciate you keeping 2004 alive. Then John Kerry called and said let it go.

3. You know Bud's not going to be injured forever, right? He has really played better the last 5 or so games, and this break gives him a little extra rest.

In my mind, the story of this season (IN THIS ORDER) is: 1)Bud's injury/Brewer's inability to score. 2) Getting nothing from the #11 pick in the draft (who's his agent again?) and 3) Trading DW for someone who is actually worse, and Barea's dropoff being #4. Miller for Barea solves this (maybe in time for the playoffs, maybe not), but the MEM deal doesn't.

Jason, thanks for the education on amnesty. I had a feeling I was missing something because it hadn't been brought up, but I didn't have the missing piece. That makes the deal less attractive, but still good from our perspective I believe.

I also agree (optimistically) that Bud can come back from his knee surgeries, but we don't know for sure. We do know his ceiling though. There are reasons why he was a second round pick, and he will always be an NBA reserve and role player...not the kind of player that deserves a long-term $5 million contract, even if his knee issues don't continue to limit him. His recent 3-point success was inflated somewhat by a horrid Denver defense that left him wide open over and over again for practice 3-pointers. Even with them daring him to shoot, he still only made 4 out of his 13 shots for the night in his most recent game. And he continues to struggle in trying to cover the perimeter. I don't expect much back for the privilege of unloading JJ and Bud's bad contract, and I think Flip may have stumbled on about the best deal he can find. I'm still skeptical that it's going to happen though.

No problem on the amnesty, and thank you for admitting the gap there. There was a guy on the Viking's BSPN board who swore up and down that NFL March "Roster Bonuses" did not count against the cap, and no matter how many people told him "Wouldn't the Cowboys just pay $200m in roster bounuses to circumvent the cap? DUH!", he wouldn't budge, so thank you for that.

My response to your comments on Bud are similar to my above response. Just give him a chance to work through it. Blonde Ricky's first 20 or so games back last year weren't great, why does Bud's have to be?

It seems like there is a lot of anxiety of Love "Johan-ing" his way out of town. Well, I'll ask a similar question that Simmons asked in his column: How did that work out for the Mets? Remember, whoever signs Love also gets the broken hands, the families' history of, um, curious decisions, the "kinda" defense, and the bellyaching about teammates, so in my mind, whatever happens happens. But Prince and Allen don't move that particular needle one way or another.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"On Minny-Memphis deal, I'm told Griz are "very unlikely" to succumb to the T-Wolves' request for Tony Allen. Time left to talk though." -- Sam Amick

No Allen, no deal.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"There's some suspicion on the Memphis side that Minnesota is trying to use this situation to improve its odds in another similar one." -- Sam Amick

Well, this is interesting. Any idea what that situation might be?

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

"There's some suspicion on the Memphis side that Minnesota is trying to use this situation to improve its odds in another similar one." -- Sam Amick

Well, this is interesting. Any idea what that situation might be?

Agreed. Time to move on to Turiaf/Price for Collison/Mullens, and maybe JJ/DC for Miller/Arthur. Or Maclemore/McCallum for expirings. Or Cole/Anderson for expirings.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

"There's some suspicion on the Memphis side that Minnesota is trying to use this situation to improve its odds in another similar one." -- Sam Amick

Well, this is interesting. Any idea what that situation might be?

Agreed. Time to move on to Turiaf/Price for Collison/Mullens, and maybe JJ/DC for Miller/Arthur. Or Maclemore/McCallum for expirings. Or Cole/Anderson for expirings.

I don't like any of those and doubt any of those would happen. I'm thinking maybe Denver buys out Miller and we sign him. Trade-wise, unfortunately I don't see anything happening for us.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

"There's some suspicion on the Memphis side that Minnesota is trying to use this situation to improve its odds in another similar one." -- Sam Amick

Well, this is interesting. Any idea what that situation might be?

Agreed. Time to move on to Turiaf/Price for Collison/Mullens, and maybe JJ/DC for Miller/Arthur. Or Maclemore/McCallum for expirings. Or Cole/Anderson for expirings.

I don't like any of those and doubt any of those would happen. I'm thinking maybe Denver buys out Miller and we sign him. Trade-wise, unfortunately I don't see anything happening for us.

Really? Nothing? PG rotation of RR/AM/DC does NOTHING for you? Miller/Arthur both being better than the guy they're replacing? McLemore's potential? Cole/Anderson both being better than the guy they're replacing? Really?