I Have Some Things to Say

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, suppose he is as you say - a bottom tier player and not good enough. Then what? Where do you go? What do you do?

If I'm the Wolves GM?

I dunno. As I've noted, I don't think the fanbase would tolerate another rebuild. Apathy is already hitting. Attendance is down and it's the "best" season in nearly 9 years.

Rubio is still a draw. Is that enough to keep him with a hefty raise, to keep some people's attention while the team loses 50+ games?

Love is a very good player... who will leave. Do we beat him to the punch? Pull a Utah move and trade him sooner to get more value for him? That's an option. But we're back to apathy. How will the fans take it? We can leak a few stories to make it seem like it had to be done and he was unhappy and hated the state, blah blah. But that is myopic PR. What's the next step? Love being the "villain" only goes so far.

Sadly, the Wolves are stuck. They need a bit of luck. Maybe that's getting lucky in the lottery. Other than that... I don't have any idea right now.

[Coolbreeze44]

I agree we're stuck. I think a Love trade becomes more inevitable with each passing game. No reason to stay stuck in mediocrity. But I'll reitterate what I said earlier. If you build the next team around Rubio with the type of players he needs to flourish, I think it can be a very entertaining and good team. That might be the best course of action at this point. Make everyone available except Rubio and maybe Dieng. The rebuild could be successful, and might not take as long.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I agree we're stuck. I think a Love trade becomes more inevitable with each passing game. No reason to stay stuck in mediocrity. But I'll reitterate what I said earlier. If you build the next team around Rubio with the type of players he needs to flourish, I think it can be a very entertaining and good team. That might be the best course of action at this point. Make everyone available except Rubio and maybe Dieng. The rebuild could be successful, and might not take as long.

No modern-era team has ever tried to build around a player who shoots as poorly as Ricky Rubio.

I'm all for breaking historical trends... but banking on it might not be such a sage decision.

[Coolbreeze44]

I think you have to accept him for who he is and decide whether he can work on a championship level team. I can think of several teams where you replace him with their current point guard and that team is a championship contender.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I think you have to accept him for who he is and decide whether he can work on a championship level team. I can think of several teams where you replace him with their current point guard and that team is a championship contender.

Whether we agree or disagree on that... you'd be plugging him into an existing successful team built with savvy, luck, et al or an extended period of time. A lot of things had to go right to get that team to where it is.

What you're suggesting is starting from scratch and building around Rubio. If 25 years of Timberwolves basketball has taught us anything, it's not easy to build a team... or even around a very good or even elite player.

Or, let's put it this way. The NBA is a superstar league. Is Rubio a superstar? No. So, you'd be building specifically around a flawed player. All... while basically waiting for that superstar player to show up... who might be the complete opposite type of player than Rubio and you'd be starting all over again anyway.

For rebuild projects, I think it's all about acquiring talent. Weed out the stiffs and keep the promising guys while hoping for one to break out.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I'd trade Rubio if possible. Again, not sure what he could bring back, but we need a fresh point guard to go along with a fresh team. New faces except for Pekovic. Sucks to know that we could have had that with Burke.

[The Rage Monster [enjin:8010341]]

Abe I don't think they are necessarily excuses, they sound more like observations to me.

I would agree with these observations. I don't think we have the players on the team to take full advantage of the things Rubio does well, when's the last time you saw a successful lob at the rim in a half court set?

The other point about having another ball handler also makes sense. It's the level to which the other 4 starters cannot handle the ball that is the problem. Pek, he's a no dribble guy. Love, he's about a 1 dribble, step back guy. Brewer, he's a dribble and fall over guy. Martin, he's a dribble and lose the ball guy.

1) What about Rubio being able to maximize the players around him. Wasn't that one of his greatest strengths? That's what I read here and on the ESPN board.

2) I was the one begging for another guy who could dribble and create... for a long time. I was the one ripped for that viewpoint BECAUSE the team had Rubio. "We want Rubio creating, not Monta Ellis or anybody else." I'm not calling out anybody by name... I don't remember names. But I shirley remember those discussions.

Again, people are revising statements to excuse Rubio for being a bottom-tier starting PG.

Martin shoots about 20% better with rubio on the court. Love I think is about 8%. Pek shoots better as well

1) Does that say more about Rubio? Or Barea?
2) And that's still not good enough. Is it their fault? Or, Ricky's? Or a combination? Because reading this board for the past few years (ESPN days), I swear it's everybody else's fault more often than not judging by a lot of the responses.

I can't speak for the ESPN days, I didn't post much. I think he does maximize the people around him, that stat by Alex is a good one. Then just by observation I'd say he is well above average at getting guys the ball on time and in good position to do something with it. The thing is I think there are more ways Rubio can maximize players but due to their physical limitation he is unable to do it with the current group.

Again I wasn't a big contributor on the ESPN boards but I do remember wanting Ellis because he could create his own shot. I thought that would make a good pairing with Rubio because Rubio could create for others early in shot clocks and Ellis could do his thing whenever.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'd trade Rubio if possible. Again, not sure what he could bring back, but we need a fresh point guard to go along with a fresh team. New faces except for Pekovic. Sucks to know that we could have had that with Burke.

In my rebuild scenario, we keep Pek and Rubio. A lot of Rubio's issues this year seem attitudinal...just not playing with the same flashiness that had many experts projecting him to be a future star as recently as a year ago. Many of us have noticed it...we just don't know why his demeanor is so different. Perhaps a shakeup of the team, including the coach, would bring back the joy that was so fun to watch.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I really don't understand the love on this board for Trey Burke. I thought he was a great college player, but I never thought he would be a great NBA point guard. First, he is undersized and not quick enough to create steals. Secondly, he was only a 36% 3-point shooter in college with the closer line, and when I watched him, he clearly had less success when pushed out to NBA distance. He would be a big drop off for the Wolves from Rubio. Ricky's rebounding, steals and assists numbers totally blow Burke's away in almost equal minutes. The only stats that Burke wins are FG and FT%, but Ricky even beats Burke in 3-point %. There is something off with Ricky this year, but let's not suggest that Burke would be an upgrade over him, even in an off year. Adelman's refusal to play Shabazz and Dieng doesn't change my opinion that the combo of those two is a much better draft selection than Burke would have been.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'd trade Rubio if possible. Again, not sure what he could bring back, but we need a fresh point guard to go along with a fresh team. New faces except for Pekovic. Sucks to know that we could have had that with Burke.

In my rebuild scenario, we keep Pek and Rubio. A lot of Rubio's issues this year seem attitudinal...just not playing with the same flashiness that had many experts projecting him to be a future star as recently as a year ago. Many of us have noticed it...we just don't know why his demeanor is so different. Perhaps a shakeup of the team, including the coach, would bring back the joy that was so fun to watch.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I really don't understand the love on this board for Trey Burke. I thought he was a great college player, but I never thought he would be a great NBA point guard. First, he is undersized and not quick enough to create steals. Secondly, he was only a 36% 3-point shooter in college with the closer line, and when I watched him, he clearly had less success when pushed out to NBA distance. He would be a big drop off for the Wolves from Rubio. Ricky's rebounding, steals and assists numbers totally blow Burke's away in almost equal minutes. The only stats that Burke wins are FG and FT%, but Ricky even beats Burke in 3-point %. There is something off with Ricky this year, but let's not suggest that Burke would be an upgrade over him, even in an off year. Adelman's refusal to play Shabazz and Dieng doesn't change my opinion that the combo of those two is a much better draft selection than Burke would have been.

I thought most people ripping the team for not keeping Burke were comparing Burke with Muhammad... not Burke with Rubio.

[KiwiMatt]

Yes we are stuck and out of luck. But you make your own luck.

The problem is we have little to work with. No cap space, no 1st round picks, no young talent with significant upside.

This franchise has been poorly run for so long now that it comes as no surprise to me that our ceiling is 10th seed in the West. Kahn's time at the helm was a complete disaster and we will be paying for it for many years to come. The reason why we don't even have a 1st round this year: Kahn drafts Wes Johnson then a year later trades him away with a 1st for capspace to sign Andre Kirilenko to a 2 year 20 million contract with a second year player option.

And people wonder why we are in this situation?