Rondo trade

[AbeVigodaLive]

Interesting debate. I guess. A few nuggets about Rondo:

- His stats improve in the playoffs. He averaged 17 / 7 / 12 in his last playoff run. Nearly a triple double in another extended run. He averaged 21 ppg as he LED the Celtics to a surprising 7-game battle vs. Miami. It included a 44 point game.
- Conversely, Rondo's been ripped for disappearing on Tuesday evening games vs. Mil or Utah or Toronto. So, how does that fit with Minnesota not being an NBA destination darling?
- The guy has a title. He's made several deep runs in the playoffs. He knows what it takes to win. (free throw percentages or three point shooting be damned.)
- Interesting dynamic in Boston. Think Mario Chalmers constantly being the whipping boy in Miami the past few years... only more talented and important. There has to be friction when the young novice joins 3 surefire HOFers... then begins to tip the balance on the court over the ensuing seasons. Did the Big 3 still treat him like the young guy learning on the fly? Did Rondo demand more of the limelight? A combination?
- Rubio and Rondo basically had the same injury, right?
- Any chance Rondo resigns in MN after his contract expires next season?
- Who goes with Rubio to make salaries match. It's clear that Ainge doesn't want a $6M hole taking up space on his roster. He's building crazy assets right now and staying as agile as possible for the future.
- Rondo improved exponentially his first few years in the league. That's what you want to see a rising star do. Rubio has stagnated. To think he'll just be able to "get it" suddenly after a time when almost all other rising stars have already begun to improve is a very dicey proposition.
- I'm not advocating a trade, because I think the Wolves have to give up a lot more than Rubio to make it work. I just think Rondo is clearly the better player. I don't see how it's debatable.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Abe, please explain how a certain players' playoff performance is relevant in any way to the Wolves. We're a franchise that focuses more on the regular season. Just kidding...sort of :) .

There's no question that pre-injury Rondo is a much better player than Rubio...I hope there isn't anyone who is trying to argue against that. We just don't know what post-injury Rondo will look like (not very good so far), and I don't want to trade a 23-year-old point guard with Rubio's potential (yes, I am in the camp that a 23-year-old has upside) for a guy who has only averaged 53 games a year the past three years. Not to mention I think Rondo is a dick.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, please explain how a certain players' playoff performance is relevant in any way to the Wolves. We're a franchise that focuses more on the regular season. Just kidding...sort of :) .

You got me.

I have no retort...

[Coolbreeze44]

Trade For Rondo: Cam, Hicks, khans, Pork, papalrep, Loose Goose

Don't Trade For Rondo: Lip, Q, markkbu, maelstrom

The vote is in. Once again I'm on the losing side. It's Ricky for Rondo. Get it done Flip. :)

Hey, the polls aren't closed yet! I'm definitely NOT in favor of trading for Rondo. I don't know if you guys have seen him since his return from knee surgery, but he doesn't look good at all. And you never know how long it will take a player to return to form after a torn ACL, if he ever does. Not to mention that he's a dink. I find him a very difficult guy to cheer for, and I don't want him on my team.

Best post of the thread so far. I'll add that although Rondo has had some great playoff games, he's had some terrible clunkers as well. You can point to one or two playoff seasons to say he picks it up in the postseason, but I think he's the same guy as in the regular season. Like a lot of you, I'm worried about Rubio and where he goes from here. But I still think his upside is greater than what Rondo is today.

Like Ricky, Rondo is often times not even guarded on the perimeter. He's three times the finisher Rubio is at the tin, but it's really the only thing I think he has on Ricky. I'd rather not have a knee jerk reaction at this point and wait to see how Ricky comes in next season. He still has less than 2 years under his belt.

I mentioned it in another thread but it seems like it was misunderstood so I'll try to say it again. IF Love leaves, and it seems like that is a real possibility at this point, I think Ricky would be a great guy to start a rebuild with. I'm not saying he is the superstar you build around, but you start with him and Pek. Love should bring a top 3 pick in this years draft and allow you to begin creating cap space. You get your superstar with that top 3 pick and I have to believe that other players more akin to playing with Rubio would be eager to sign here. I'd hate to see Love go and hope it never happens, but if it does I think Ricky can be used in the next rebuilding phase. The best scenario is that the team turns things around, makes the playoffs, Love resigns and we continue to try to build around our current core. But as the chances for that diminish, I'm trying to offer a way to turn this around quicker than another 5 year project.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

I mentioned it in another thread but it seems like it was misunderstood so I'll try to say it again. IF Love leaves, and it seems like that is a real possibility at this point, I think Ricky would be a great guy to start a rebuild with. I'm not saying he is the superstar you build around, but you start with him and Pek. Love should bring a top 3 pick in this years draft and allow you to begin creating cap space. You get your superstar with that top 3 pick and I have to believe that other players more akin to playing with Rubio would be eager to sign here. I'd hate to see Love go and hope it never happens, but if it does I think Ricky can be used in the next rebuilding phase. The best scenario is that the team turns things around, makes the playoffs, Love resigns and we continue to try to build around our current core. But as the chances for that diminish, I'm trying to offer a way to turn this around quicker than another 5 year project.

[AbeVigodaLive]

.

I have to severely disagree with the bolded statement. You absolutely don't start a rebuilding project with such a flawed player as a main piece of the core. It's fine if he is here, but you don't make him one of the cornerstones as you plan the future, which is what you are doing. Rubio is currently a borderline starter, let alone a piece we should concern ourselves with keeping for a rebuilding project. You put Rubio on a team with all young, inexperienced player and his flaws get even more pronounced. Now, if he improves massively on his offensive inefficiencies over the next year, then it woould be a plausible course for this franchise.

[Coolbreeze44]

I mentioned it in another thread but it seems like it was misunderstood so I'll try to say it again. IF Love leaves, and it seems like that is a real possibility at this point, I think Ricky would be a great guy to start a rebuild with. I'm not saying he is the superstar you build around, but you start with him and Pek. Love should bring a top 3 pick in this years draft and allow you to begin creating cap space. You get your superstar with that top 3 pick and I have to believe that other players more akin to playing with Rubio would be eager to sign here. I'd hate to see Love go and hope it never happens, but if it does I think Ricky can be used in the next rebuilding phase. The best scenario is that the team turns things around, makes the playoffs, Love resigns and we continue to try to build around our current core. But as the chances for that diminish, I'm trying to offer a way to turn this around quicker than another 5 year project.

I have to severely disagree with the bolded statement. You absolutely don't start a rebuilding project with such a flawed player as a main piece of the core. It's fine if he is here, but you don't make him one of the cornerstones as you plan the future, which is what you are doing. Rubio is currently a borderline starter, let alone a piece we should concern ourselves with keeping for a rebuilding project. You put Rubio on a team with all young, inexperienced player and his flaws get even more pronounced. Now, if he improves massively on his offensive inefficiencies over the next year, then it woould be a plausible course for this franchise.

[Coolbreeze44]

.

I have to severely disagree with the bolded statement. You absolutely don't start a rebuilding project with such a flawed player as a main piece of the core. It's fine if he is here, but you don't make him one of the cornerstones as you plan the future, which is what you are doing. Rubio is currently a borderline starter, let alone a piece we should concern ourselves with keeping for a rebuilding project. You put Rubio on a team with all young, inexperienced player and his flaws get even more pronounced. Now, if he improves massively on his offensive inefficiencies over the next year, then it woould be a plausible course for this franchise.

And we keep reading how Rubio could be so good if ONLY he was surrounded by talent... the right kind of talent. So, the team should rebuild around a guy whose effectiveness relies on everybody else?

What if the best player available is PG who's better than Rubio and doesn't need to have good teammates to be effective?

[AbeVigodaLive]

Interesting article about Rondo's "poor" shooting.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/courtvision-everything-you-think-you-know-about-rondos-shooting-is-wrong/

One interesting nugget:

"Rondo was actually one of the best elbow shooters in the league last season. Out of 141 NBA players who attempted at least 100 shots from the elbows, Rondo ranked fourth in field goal percentage in that zone -- trailing only Jason Smith, Steve Nash, and Jose Calderon. Those are pretty good numbers for a guy who can't shoot. Per Synergy Sports, he also earned a "very good" rating for shots off the dribble, and an "excellent" rating for long 2-point jumpers."

Granted, it was only half a season or so... but the guy has improved from the poor shooting PG so many people labeled him as early in his career. So much so, Goldsberry ends the article with this nugget:

"Still, in a league full of bad shooting point guards, I think it's time to take Rondo off our "can't shoot" list, and maybe redirect our brick-laying scorn toward the point guards in Charlotte, Minneapolis, or Oklahoma City..."

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Abe, the problem though is one of volume. While Rondo is a lot more efficient than Rubio inside the arc, it doesn't make a ton of difference because he just doesn't attempt that many more shots.

Here are their stats, comparing Rondo from last season to Rubio of this season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rondora01&y1=2013&p2=rubiori01&y2=2014

Not a ton of difference. Rubio gets more steals, turns it over less, shoots better from beyond the arc and at the free throw line. Rondo gets more assists (mostly because he is the focal point of that offense; they don't have Love-style forward facilitating from the high post) and yes, he is a lot more efficient on his 2-point shots.

He's just not that much better.