The Rage Monster wrote:It's going to be an uphill battle either way, we can't rely on other teams falling off, we just need to win more games. Even if Phoenix falters I'm thinking Memphis will pick it up when Gasol returns. He's missed a bunch of games and they're still only 1.5 games behind us.
sjm34 wrote:Q, this margin of victory thing is kind of a mirage when it comes to the wolves. I don't know of another team in the league that leaves their starters in the game up 30 points. Adelman has done that on numerous occasions. I think that is one of the reasons we don't have any close wins. Whether it is a good strategy or not is up for debate, but I just think it skews the numbers a bit.
To be fair...
Haven't the Wolves sat the starters most/all of the 4th quarter at least a couple times? And, star players or even starters are usually given a certain amount of time, even in games already decided. A big part of the NBA is about identifying roles and routine and all that.
That's why substitution patterns are like clockwork. The stars want their minutes... and they want their stats. So I don't think it's super common for those guys to sit significantly more often on most NBA teams as the guys do here in those games.
Good points Abe.
SJM, Those huge leads are typically built up in the thick of battle in the early to middle parts of the 3rd quarter. No head coach sits all of his starters down with a full quarter and half left to play, no matter how big their lead is. And shouldn't the Wolves get credit for building up those huge leads to begin with? It's not like we're piling on points in garbage time. Heck, look at the game against New Orleans. We built that huge lead up in the 3rd, then started to give a lot of it back in the 4th quarter again. The Milwaukee game is another example. We went into the 4th with a big lead, played our bench, and they promptly got blitzed by Milwaukee, who went on a 15-2 run and cut the lead to 14 with 4 minutes left. It would be massively demoralizing to give away a game like that, so Adelman was forced to put his starters back in to close the door. It was embarassing that the bench couldn't finish the game off, which is what Adelman definitely would have preferred.
sjm34 wrote:Q, this margin of victory thing is kind of a mirage when it comes to the wolves. I don't know of another team in the league that leaves their starters in the game up 30 points. Adelman has done that on numerous occasions. I think that is one of the reasons we don't have any close wins. Whether it is a good strategy or not is up for debate, but I just think it skews the numbers a bit.
To be fair...
Haven't the Wolves sat the starters most/all of the 4th quarter at least a couple times? And, star players or even starters are usually given a certain amount of time, even in games already decided. A big part of the NBA is about identifying roles and routine and all that.
That's why substitution patterns are like clockwork. The stars want their minutes... and they want their stats. So I don't think it's super common for those guys to sit significantly more often on most NBA teams as the guys do here in those games.
Good points Abe.
SJM, Those huge leads are typically built up in the thick of battle in the early to middle parts of the 3rd quarter. No head coach sits all of his starters down with a full quarter and half left to play, no matter how big their lead is. And shouldn't the Wolves get credit for building up those huge leads to begin with? It's not like we're piling on points in garbage time. Heck, look at the game against New Orleans. We built that huge lead up in the 3rd, then started to give a lot of it back in the 4th quarter again. The Milwaukee game is another example. We went into the 4th with a big lead, played our bench, and they promptly got blitzed by Milwaukee, who went on a 15-2 run and cut the lead to 14 with 4 minutes left. It would be massively demoralizing to give away a game like that, so Adelman was forced to put his starters back in to close the door. It was embarassing that the bench couldn't finish the game off, which is what Adelman definitely would have preferred.
No. Q.
It was Adelman's offensive scheme, rotations, demeanor, halitosis, gas, laziness, et al that allowed Milwaukee back in the game in the first place. I don't understand why you keep giving him a pass.
The wolves have won 16 games with an average margin of 16pts in those wins. Love has averaged 35 min in those games. I am not asking Adelman to sit all of his starters, but if you watch SA, OKC or Miami they will sub out starters one or two at time during that period. I don't have a problem with Adelman putting the guys back in when the bench is faltering, but maybe sub some guys out sooner. Against NO we still had 4 starters on the floor with under 3 min's remaining and a 20 pt lead. I have to believe with our stout defenders off the bench that the lead should be safe.
You bring up the Milwaukee game, but when interviewed about it Adelman blew off the question of maybe using a rookie or two. When your bench guys give up a 15-2 run it might be time to consider other options. Rick's only option is to throw the starters back on the floor. Does he not understand (and apparently several posters on here) that these guys have good and bad nights. It is OK to throw out a lower guy and see what he has. Look at JJ and how different he is from one night to another. That is why you have those other guys sitting over there.
Another thing to consider is when you build up a big lead early or midway through the 3rd quarter that usually comes at a cost of energy to your players. Maybe it might be nice to give them a breather a little sooner. I've watched our starters at the end of their minutes start to give back the lead before the bench guys hit the floor.
I know this is about Phoenix and Dallas, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread.
Golden State is trying to work out a trade for Kyle Lowry? Yikes.
I guess the one caveat would be if Lowry would grow disgruntled as a backup, or secondary guy there and if there are too many legit guys who can handle the ball. It just shows that even the teams ahead of the Wolves are trying to get better... and they have more leeway and assets to do so in many cases.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I know this is about Phoenix and Dallas, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread.
Golden State is trying to work out a trade for Kyle Lowry? Yikes.
I guess the one caveat would be if Lowry would grow disgruntled as a backup, or secondary guy there and if there are too many legit guys who can handle the ball. It just shows that even the teams ahead of the Wolves are trying to get better... and they have more leeway and assets to do so in many cases.
I saw they are also interested in the "old man" Miller, along with SAC.
I think GS is missing Jack a lot more than they anticipated.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I know this is about Phoenix and Dallas, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread.
Golden State is trying to work out a trade for Kyle Lowry? Yikes.
I guess the one caveat would be if Lowry would grow disgruntled as a backup, or secondary guy there and if there are too many legit guys who can handle the ball. It just shows that even the teams ahead of the Wolves are trying to get better... and they have more leeway and assets to do so in many cases.
I don't think this will happen for two reasons:
1. Toronto is playing out of its mind since they traded Gay. They are currently the 4th seed. Ujiri is probably the best GM in the league and knows that Wiggins or Parker could make them really good, but it's tough to tank from the 3rd or 4th seed. They might decide to keep Lowry and make a run at it.
2. What ammo does GSW have to get Lowry? He's a good guard, and Ujiri isn't going to be on the short end of any deal unless it improves them greatly for some other reason. GSW won't trade one of its six core players for him, and I don't see who else Toronto would want. They do have a trade exception I guess, but Toronto would have to be desperate to tank to just give away Lowry.
I don't see the Warriors getting anyone of significance (like Lowry) without giving up Harrison Barnes. If they want to give up Barnes, I'll take that as a win for the other Western teams. His potential is stupid high and is already a big time contributor.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I know this is about Phoenix and Dallas, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread.
Golden State is trying to work out a trade for Kyle Lowry? Yikes.
I guess the one caveat would be if Lowry would grow disgruntled as a backup, or secondary guy there and if there are too many legit guys who can handle the ball. It just shows that even the teams ahead of the Wolves are trying to get better... and they have more leeway and assets to do so in many cases.
I don't think this will happen for two reasons:
1. Toronto is playing out of its mind since they traded Gay. They are currently the 4th seed. Ujiri is probably the best GM in the league and knows that Wiggins or Parker could make them really good, but it's tough to tank from the 3rd or 4th seed. They might decide to keep Lowry and make a run at it.
2. What ammo does GSW have to get Lowry? He's a good guard, and Ujiri isn't going to be on the short end of any deal unless it improves them greatly for some other reason. GSW won't trade one of its six core players for him, and I don't see who else Toronto would want. They do have a trade exception I guess, but Toronto would have to be desperate to tank to just give away Lowry.
If Lowry is gone at the end of the season, I don't see why Toronto pushes forward for such short-term results. Who cares about making the playoffs in the East. It's Miami and Indiana. Guaranteed.
That being said, you'd think another team would have more to offer for him than GSW.
AbeVigodaLive wrote:I know this is about Phoenix and Dallas, but I didn't think it warranted its own thread.
Golden State is trying to work out a trade for Kyle Lowry? Yikes.
I guess the one caveat would be if Lowry would grow disgruntled as a backup, or secondary guy there and if there are too many legit guys who can handle the ball. It just shows that even the teams ahead of the Wolves are trying to get better... and they have more leeway and assets to do so in many cases.
I don't think this will happen for two reasons:
1. Toronto is playing out of its mind since they traded Gay. They are currently the 4th seed. Ujiri is probably the best GM in the league and knows that Wiggins or Parker could make them really good, but it's tough to tank from the 3rd or 4th seed. They might decide to keep Lowry and make a run at it.
2. What ammo does GSW have to get Lowry? He's a good guard, and Ujiri isn't going to be on the short end of any deal unless it improves them greatly for some other reason. GSW won't trade one of its six core players for him, and I don't see who else Toronto would want. They do have a trade exception I guess, but Toronto would have to be desperate to tank to just give away Lowry.
If Lowry is gone at the end of the season, I don't see why Toronto pushes forward for such short-term results. Who cares about making the playoffs in the East. It's Miami and Indiana. Guaranteed.
That being said, you'd think another team would have more to offer for him than GSW.
Lowry could leave so they may try to get value, but like you said, GSW won't come up with the best offer. Lowry is already an expiring, so the only thing appealing to Toronto would be young talent on good deals. GSW doesn't have anything that fits that description other than maybe Draymond Green.
