One Reason for the Loss Tonight

[AbeVigodaLive]

Oh and Q... you pointed out the bench stats.

2 - 12 fg. 5 points.

But neglected to add that they also had 9 of the 17 TOs. Worst bench in the league. How many games have they cost the Wolves this season?

[ace [enjin:6598567]]

No one thinks, Wow our starting pg scored 4 pts again ? Imo all starters need to score more than that regardless of other contributions.
We blame the bench for the lack of scoring but give Rubio a free pass? "He would try and pass in a game of one on one at this point".

I would rip Rubio for only scoring 4 points more... except it's tough to be angry about 13 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals and didn't shoot extra poorly. He only took three shots, made one. Made both his FTs too. This one's not on Ricky tonight. Not to mention Adelman put him in later than he needed to be.

Tough to shoot extra poorly when u only take 3 shots its also sad when we have to point out that " he made both his fts." At some point fans have to look at these close games and acknowledge if we had a scorer at the point we'd win some of those games.
And when I say a scorer I dont mean he has to be Gary Payton. But good lord is 12 pts to much?

Our starters as a whole average 82.9 ppg. That's 2nd in the league. Our bench scores 23.5 ppg, which is 28th in the league. Ricky can continue to average 8.9 points and our starting lineup will be absolutely fine. Ricky facilitates everyone else's scoring. Bench production is the problem. Right now the Wolves are the 2012-2013 Trailblazers.

[Coolbreeze44]

Abe, you want to see a sad basketball team, take Rubio off the Wolves and try to win with what's left. He's more than just a marginal asset. Get him some better shooters and finishers and his value only increases.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

No one thinks, Wow our starting pg scored 4 pts again ? Imo all starters need to score more than that regardless of other contributions.
We blame the bench for the lack of scoring but give Rubio a free pass? "He would try and pass in a game of one on one at this point".

I would rip Rubio for only scoring 4 points more... except it's tough to be angry about 13 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals and didn't shoot extra poorly. He only took three shots, made one. Made both his FTs too. This one's not on Ricky tonight. Not to mention Adelman put him in later than he needed to be.

Tough to shoot extra poorly when u only take 3 shots its also sad when we have to point out that " he made both his fts." At some point fans have to look at these close games and acknowledge if we had a scorer at the point we'd win some of those games.

That was my point. It's not like he went 2 for 8 or 3 for 11 or anything like that. 1 for 3 is something I can live with given that he contributes elite numbers in practically everything else (assists, rebounds, steals, defense) and our scorers (Love, Pek, Martin) are scoring, which they were.

Our bench was horrible. Adelman wasn't that great tonight either. The ref fucked us in the biggest play of the game and we lost. Those three elements come way before putting blame on Rubio's inability to score tonight.

You canNOT live with a starting PG shooting 1 - 3 in today's NBA. It does NOT work.

Sorry. Rubio is a gifted passer and has flair and charm and steals and many other factors. But you canNOT be a good NBA team if your PG can't score. That's not how the league is set up with the rules they have in place.

Your PG MUST be able to be a threat offensively for spacing reasons... but more importantly for close games where you need a bucket.

I am not in any way blaming Rubio for the loss. But it's no secret I've been frustrated with the Rubio apologists for 3 seasons now. There is always somebody else to blame...

I'm on the fence about whether or not we can be contenders with Rubio. I've shared my opinion about his inability to score plenty of times. It's different. He needs to improve no doubt, but tonight he set the team up to get a win when he was in the game. Rubio's 1 for 3 was fine for tonight given the other stats he produced. I don't see how Rubio's catching blame for tonight's game. While you [Abe] said you're not blaming Rubio for tonight, your post makes me think otherwise.

And we also don't know what can be achieved with a player like Rubio. Why? There's never been a player like him. Elite in multiple facets of the game, yet struggles to put the ball in the hoop.

[Porckchop]

No one thinks, Wow our starting pg scored 4 pts again ? Imo all starters need to score more than that regardless of other contributions.
We blame the bench for the lack of scoring but give Rubio a free pass? "He would try and pass in a game of one on one at this point".

I would rip Rubio for only scoring 4 points more... except it's tough to be angry about 13 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals and didn't shoot extra poorly. He only took three shots, made one. Made both his FTs too. This one's not on Ricky tonight. Not to mention Adelman put him in later than he needed to be.

Tough to shoot extra poorly when u only take 3 shots its also sad when we have to point out that " he made both his fts." At some point fans have to look at these close games and acknowledge if we had a scorer at the point we'd win some of those games.

That was my point. It's not like he went 2 for 8 or 3 for 11 or anything like that. 1 for 3 is something I can live with given that he contributes elite numbers in practically everything else (assists, rebounds, steals, defense) and our scorers (Love, Pek, Martin) are scoring, which they were.

Our bench was horrible. Adelman wasn't that great tonight either. The ref fucked us in the biggest play of the game and we lost. Those three elements come way before putting blame on Rubio's inability to score tonight.

You may be able to live with him shooting 3 times a nite, but for the betterment of the team he needs to take 8-10 and make 3-4 for this team to be successful. Regardless of his other contributions. Imo. Starters in the NBA should trip and fall into 10 points . I understand what he brought to the table tonite, but I believe defenses now sag so far off him it enables them to play easier help defense which will effect other players shooting percentages.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe, you want to see a sad basketball team, take Rubio off the Wolves and try to win with what's left. He's more than just a marginal asset. Get him some better shooters and finishers and his value only increases.

I'm not saying he sucks. Or a detriment overall to this team. But read your last sentence again.

Brevin Knight might have averaged 15 apg with better shooters and finishers too. The best PGs (even the better PGs) have the ability to do things on their own and are not ALWAYS reliant on everybody else.

People always point to bad shooting hindering Rubio's assists. But how often do we hear about a super fast pace enhancing those assist totals. Or, opposing PGs complete refusal to guard him as a shooter clog up possible passing lanes, mucking it up for everybody else?

You take the good with the bad with every player. Except, seemingly... with Rubio by many on this board over the past 3 years. We hear about the good... and the reasons and excuses for the bad.

The onus is on the player... IF we all truly believe he's an elite or even very good player in the NBA.

[AbeVigodaLive]

.

I'm on the fence about whether or not we can be contenders with Rubio. I've shared my opinion about his inability to score plenty of times. It's different. He needs to improve no doubt, but tonight he set the team up to get a win when he was in the game. Rubio's 1 for 3 was fine for tonight given the other stats he produced. I don't see how Rubio's catching blame for tonight's game. While you [Abe] said you're not blaming Rubio for tonight, your post makes me think otherwise.

And we also don't know what can be achieved with a player like Rubio. Why? There's never been a player like him. Elite in multiple facets of the game, yet struggles to put the ball in the hoop.

Well, you can take me for my word... or not.

I blame the bench for this one. AGAIN. I thought I was clear on that. Personally, I think it's the worst bench in the league and that Shved is not an NBA caliber player.

My rant about Rubio has a lot less to do with his shortcomings... as it does about posters' reluctance to rip him... or tendencies to find excuses for him.

[Porckchop]

Abe, you want to see a sad basketball team, take Rubio off the Wolves and try to win with what's left. He's more than just a marginal asset. Get him some better shooters and finishers and his value only increases.

I'm not saying he sucks. Or a detriment overall to this team. But read your last sentence again.

Brevin Knight might have averaged 15 apg with better shooters and finishers too. The best PGs (even the better PGs) have the ability to do things on their own and are not ALWAYS reliant on everybody else.

People always point to bad shooting hindering Rubio's assists. But how often do we hear about a super fast pace enhancing those assist totals. Or, opposing PGs complete refusal to guard him as a shooter clog up possible passing lanes, mucking it up for everybody else?

You take the good with the bad with every player. Except, seemingly... with Rubio by many on this board over the past 3 years. We hear about the good... and the reasons and excuses for the bad.

The onus is on the player... IF we all truly believe he's an elite or even very good player in the NBA.

Hes a great player if he doesnt shoot at all, said no one ever.. Okay maybe Dennis Rodman.....

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

No one thinks, Wow our starting pg scored 4 pts again ? Imo all starters need to score more than that regardless of other contributions.
We blame the bench for the lack of scoring but give Rubio a free pass? "He would try and pass in a game of one on one at this point".

I would rip Rubio for only scoring 4 points more... except it's tough to be angry about 13 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals and didn't shoot extra poorly. He only took three shots, made one. Made both his FTs too. This one's not on Ricky tonight. Not to mention Adelman put him in later than he needed to be.

Tough to shoot extra poorly when u only take 3 shots its also sad when we have to point out that " he made both his fts." At some point fans have to look at these close games and acknowledge if we had a scorer at the point we'd win some of those games.

That was my point. It's not like he went 2 for 8 or 3 for 11 or anything like that. 1 for 3 is something I can live with given that he contributes elite numbers in practically everything else (assists, rebounds, steals, defense) and our scorers (Love, Pek, Martin) are scoring, which they were.

Our bench was horrible. Adelman wasn't that great tonight either. The ref fucked us in the biggest play of the game and we lost. Those three elements come way before putting blame on Rubio's inability to score tonight.

You may be able to live with him shooting 3 times a nite, but for the betterment of the team he needs to take 8-10 and make 3-4 for this team to be successful. Regardless of his other contributions. Imo. Starters in the NBA should trip and fall into 10 points . I understand what he brought to the table tonite, but I believe defenses now sag so far off him it enables them to play easier help defense which will effect other players shooting percentages.

So you would rather him chuck up bad shots that he's not comfortable with just to get that FGA number up? That's practically what I'm reading because it's not like Rubio is turning down shots he's comfortable with or making an unnecessary extra pass most of the time. When he's got a good look at a jumpshot, he usually takes it. When there's nights like tonight where he's impacting the game in literally every category but scoring, he doesn't need to throw up shots he isn't comfortable with. Why hurt the team in doing that?

Also not fair to ignore his other contributions and focus on one facet of the game. Not fair to do that for ANY player in the NBA, especially when you're doing it to make your argument better. There's so many incomplete players in the league that it's easier to count the complete ones than it is incomplete players. But since Rubio plays elite basketball in two/three (facilitating, defense + creating turnovers) categories, let's just forget all about that and focus on his scoring? Nah, not fair.

So what needs to happen? Rubio needs to take next off-season and truly dedicate himself to improving his scoring ability, both driving/finishing and shooting. Take the summer off from playing Spanish basketball. Players are made in the off-season. All great players know it. Love knows it too. He needs to get better. Never said that wasn't true, but he impacts the game in so many other ways that games like tonight can't be put on him.

[Porckchop]

No one thinks, Wow our starting pg scored 4 pts again ? Imo all starters need to score more than that regardless of other contributions.
We blame the bench for the lack of scoring but give Rubio a free pass? "He would try and pass in a game of one on one at this point".

I would rip Rubio for only scoring 4 points more... except it's tough to be angry about 13 assists, 9 rebounds, 3 steals and didn't shoot extra poorly. He only took three shots, made one. Made both his FTs too. This one's not on Ricky tonight. Not to mention Adelman put him in later than he needed to be.

Tough to shoot extra poorly when u only take 3 shots its also sad when we have to point out that " he made both his fts." At some point fans have to look at these close games and acknowledge if we had a scorer at the point we'd win some of those games.

That was my point. It's not like he went 2 for 8 or 3 for 11 or anything like that. 1 for 3 is something I can live with given that he contributes elite numbers in practically everything else (assists, rebounds, steals, defense) and our scorers (Love, Pek, Martin) are scoring, which they were.

Our bench was horrible. Adelman wasn't that great tonight either. The ref fucked us in the biggest play of the game and we lost. Those three elements come way before putting blame on Rubio's inability to score tonight.

You may be able to live with him shooting 3 times a nite, but for the betterment of the team he needs to take 8-10 and make 3-4 for this team to be successful. Regardless of his other contributions. Imo. Starters in the NBA should trip and fall into 10 points . I understand what he brought to the table tonite, but I believe defenses now sag so far off him it enables them to play easier help defense which will effect other players shooting percentages.

So you would rather him chuck up bad shots that he's not comfortable with just to get that FGA number up? That's practically what I'm reading because it's not like Rubio is turning down shots he's comfortable with or making an unnecessary extra pass most of the time. When he's got a good look at a jumpshot, he usually takes it. When there's nights like tonight where he's impacting the game in literally every category but scoring, he doesn't need to throw up shots he isn't comfortable with. Why hurt the team in doing that?

Also not fair to ignore his other contributions and focus on one facet of the game. Not fair to do that for ANY player in the NBA, especially when you're doing it to make your argument better. There's so many incomplete players in the league that it's easier to count the complete ones than it is incomplete players. But since Rubio plays elite basketball in two/three (facilitating, defense + creating turnovers) categories, let's just forget all about that and focus on his scoring? Nah, not fair.

So what needs to happen? Rubio needs to take next off-season and truly dedicate himself to improving his scoring ability, both driving/finishing and shooting. Take the summer off from playing Spanish basketball. Players are made in the off-season. All great players know it. Love knows it too. He needs to get better. Never said that wasn't true, but he impacts the game in so many other ways that games like tonight can't be put on him.

You missed the part where I sad he has to make them too. Not just shoot to get his attempts up. Ur obviously reading only bits and pieces of what I wrote. And only responding to parts too.
Do u disagree that his lack of or disinterest in shooting the ball causes defenses to play off him? Which in turn means others are getting extra defensive attention? And its crazy to say his defense is elite. Steals are not the end all be all. Hes been outplayed by his counterparts on more nites than not. And yes those nites when he scores 6-8 pts and the opposing pg scores 20-22? That does make a difference even if he does have more steals and assists.