Kevin Love

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Thanks for the research, markkbu...interesting and thought provoking. As I thought about the data you shared with us, though, it actually made me feel better about Love in end of game situations. I would argue that defensive intensity kicks up significantly in crunch time, and that it becomes much more difficult to score when the game is on the line. The open looks a player might get when the defense is more lax earlier in the game just aren't there in the final minutes of a close game. Having his scoring rate drop only 10% seems kind of impressive to me. I wonder how the same data would shake out for the players who are widely considered elite (I wonder, but I'm too lazy to do the research :))

[TravisT [enjin:6669699]]

Does it even really matter? In Zgoda's opinion Love is as good as gone. I know he's just the beat writer, but the guy is around Love almost every day so he gets a good feel of what guys are thinking. From what he sees from Love he's 'Hollywood; through and through'. Whatever the reasoning, the odds aren't in our favor. I hope Flip really starts the feeling out process early for trade offers instead of waiting too long like they did with DWill. It was a good try, but I'd say blow it up again. I'd rather have a terrible team than a middling team.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

I realize I am jumping in late on this, but a couple of things:

1. When it comes to The Wolves knowledge of PF's, there is no "we". There's a he, and his name is Mchale. Which is the very reason I gave him the knickname "Power Forward Idiot Savant" on the BSPN board. And he is gone now, and so his area of Savant-ness.

2. And in a related story, that is why Houston's attempt at a "Reverse Johan" with Asik will go NOWHERE. Nobody believes that Asik is worth paying through the nose for if Mchale couldn't make it work, and don't forget, he asked for a trade, ala Johan.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I took a couple more minutes and looked at all the games that were within 6 points in the last 5 minutes (including the OT against the Magic) and found that his normally puts up .625 points per minute during those times. His season average is .70 points per minute through the course of the season.

(Just so that Q will leave me alone about sample size ;-) )

So we know that this season, Love is slightly less (a bit over 10%) likely to score in the last 5 minutes of a close game than he is normally.

That doesn't make him a bad person, or means that he beats his cat, it just means that we either need him to improve his performance in the last 5 minutes of the game, or we need our defense to step up, or we need another player to step up.

That's all.

Do we have any numbers of other "star" players (or closers) and whether their stats dip, too?

Because I always think back to the common narrative that Kobe Bryant is an all-time great last-second-shot scorer... when the stats reveal a very different reality. I know we've expanded the "closer metrics" here... as we should. It's more than just last-second heaves.

But are other top guys struggling compared to their rest-of-game averages? And if so, what kind of players are those guys?

[m4gor [enjin:6667447]]

2. And in a related story, that is why Houston's attempt at a "Reverse Johan" with Asik will go NOWHERE. Nobody believes that Asik is worth paying through the nose for if Mchale couldn't make it work, and don't forget, he asked for a trade, ala Johan.

i don't understand you, it was obvious from start that both Asik and D12 are pure Cs, none of them can be effective as a PF, if Mchale really thought these two can play effectively together then he is smoking somthing

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

I'm smoking something? I'm not the one who acquired both of them.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Does it even really matter? In Zgoda's opinion Love is as good as gone. I know he's just the beat writer, but the guy is around Love almost every day so he gets a good feel of what guys are thinking. From what he sees from Love he's 'Hollywood; through and through'. Whatever the reasoning, the odds aren't in our favor. I hope Flip really starts the feeling out process early for trade offers instead of waiting too long like they did with DWill. It was a good try, but I'd say blow it up again. I'd rather have a terrible team than a middling team.

Zgoda's a beat writer, who through Twitter interaction is a complete idiot when it comes to knowing anything about basketball. He's good for quotes and knowing if someone's going to play that night. Other than that, I don't really respect his opinion on the Wolves.

[thedoper]

Does it even really matter? In Zgoda's opinion Love is as good as gone. I know he's just the beat writer, but the guy is around Love almost every day so he gets a good feel of what guys are thinking. From what he sees from Love he's 'Hollywood; through and through'. Whatever the reasoning, the odds aren't in our favor. I hope Flip really starts the feeling out process early for trade offers instead of waiting too long like they did with DWill. It was a good try, but I'd say blow it up again. I'd rather have a terrible team than a middling team.

Zgoda's a beat writer, who through Twitter interaction is a complete idiot when it comes to knowing anything about basketball. He's good for quotes and knowing if someone's going to play that night. Other than that, I don't really respect his opinion on the Wolves.

I agree that Zgoda isn't the greatest. But who are the good sources who actually believe Love is going to stay? I think Love has some good reasons to stay (the most being that we will give him max money for his whole tenure here). But is there anyone who is on the inside or in the media who offers a legit counter to this position Zgoda has? I want Love to stay but just don't see how wants to after his whiny spat last year, and now this year when we were supposed to finally see what this team can do we are still a 500 club. If he does stay it would be a surprise to many people, including local and national media.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Except for the people on this forum... I've never read a thing from anybody who is optimistic about Love staying. Why would he?

Just how promising is this team? Why shouldn't there still be resentment from Love? Kahn and Rambis may be gone... but Taylor isn't.

As MANY of us pointed out the day it happened... Kahn not offering Love the Max Deal was a terrible move.

Others had a more doomsday take on it than others. For example, I claimed it would be the worst decision in franchise history and set the franchise back possibly a decade.

[WildWolf2813]

Except for the people on this forum... I've never read a thing from anybody who is optimistic about Love staying. Why would he?

Just how promising is this team? Why shouldn't there still be resentment from Love? Kahn and Rambis may be gone... but Taylor isn't.

As MANY of us pointed out the day it happened... Kahn not offering Love the Max Deal was a terrible move.

Others had a more doomsday take on it than others. For example, I claimed it would be the worst decision in franchise history and set the franchise back possibly a decade.

If Love had the 5 year deal, do you really think Flip (or Kahn) would have thought, we gotta make this team better ASAP? Of course not. It woulda been nothing but complacency.

Bigger question. If Love had a 5 year deal and with the way we're playing, would you be more secure about Love staying here? Let's be honest, whether he had 10 years left or 1, this is a make or break season. The opt out hastens it a bit, but this team seems too comfortable being what they are.

Love's gonna leave regardless of what we do. What Flip and Glen have to do is figure out how not to do this to Rubio or the next franchise player, if we ever get another one, especially Flip. I think Glen has a tarnished reputation that causes agents and players to be hesitant to be part of an organization that constantly fails its best players.