GDT Love Licks the Lakers

[Lipoli390]

Compare the following:

1. Lakers three wings -- Nick Young at $1.6 million per year for 2 years, Xavier Henry at $800,000 for 1 year, and J. Meeks at $1.5 million for 1 season. All three are in their 20s.

2. Wolves three wings -- Martin at $7 million per year for 4 years at age 31 with a long history of injuries, Brewer at about $5 million per year for three years, Budinger at $5 million per for 4 years.

Compare stats, skill sets, athleticism and contracts and then consider which team has the better front office.

[Lipoli390]

Wolves have lost 7 consecutive games to the Clippers. Wolves really need to break that streak.

[thedoper]

Compare the following:

1. Lakers three wings -- Nick Young at $1.6 million per year for 2 years, Xavier Henry at $800,000 for 1 year, and J. Meeks at $1.5 million for 1 season. All three are in their 20s.

2. Wolves three wings -- Martin at $7 million per year for 4 years at age 31 with a long history of injuries, Brewer at about $5 million per year for three years, Budinger at $5 million per for 4 years.

Compare stats, skill sets, athleticism and contracts and then consider which team has the better front office.

To be fair, the Lakers are organizing to keep people interested until 2015 and 2016 when they make a run at Love, Durant, Westbrook and whoever else is sexy at that time. The Wolves are battling to save their franchise. I don't mind that they paid people this year, and understand the logic to doing it. The bottom line is without another legit superstar who dominates on both sides of the ball, this team won't win with Love as the focal point of this team. But look at Indiana now. They were in no mans land for a while, tried to build around Granger, and now he is a 6th man. I could see the Wolves still having an upward trajectory with Love gone.

[Phenom]

Compare the following:

1. Lakers three wings -- Nick Young at $1.6 million per year for 2 years, Xavier Henry at $800,000 for 1 year, and J. Meeks at $1.5 million for 1 season. All three are in their 20s.

2. Wolves three wings -- Martin at $7 million per year for 4 years at age 31 with a long history of injuries, Brewer at about $5 million per year for three years, Budinger at $5 million per for 4 years.

Compare stats, skill sets, athleticism and contracts and then consider which team has the better front office.

Please. You know if the Wolves had signed those 3, you would have been pissed, I would have been pissed and everyone would be complaining about how the Wolves can only sign other teams' trash. Be honest, how far will a team really get with Henry, Meeks and Young shooting a combined 43 shots? That is what we should want from the Lakers. What happens when the time comes for them to be put back into their roles? Young has proven that he can't contain himself and kills flow in 8 out of the 10 games he does not shoot well. Meeks and Henry are decent but have never been able to break through with a healthy rotation in front of them. I'd take those 2 on the Wolves bench now but also knowing they won't be shooting that often.

[Lipoli390]

Phenom - Why on earth would I have been pissed if the Wolves had signed any of those three????!! Even if they didn't pan out, their contracts are super friendly. I've never cared much for Young, but I've always liked Meeks a lot and I've been intrigued by Henry's potential. And Young can definitely create his own shot and put a lot of points on the board.

As for Martin, Brewer and Budinger, I don't have a huge problem with any of them individually. My problem was signing all three to long-term deals at pretty high annual salaries. And sadly, the numbers show we'd probably be better off with with three Laker wings instead.

I'm on record this past summer preferring to sign DeMarre Carroll at $2.5 million per year over the deal we gave Brewer. I'd much prefer to have Carroll, Martin and a couple of those three Laker wings right now instead of Brewer, Budinger and Shved.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Phenom - Why on earth would I have been pissed if the Wolves had signed any of those three????!! Even if they didn't pan out, their contracts are super friendly. I've never cared much for Young, but I've always liked Meeks a lot and I've been intrigued by Henry's potential. And Young can definitely create his own shot and put a lot of points on the board.

As for Martin, Brewer and Budinger, I don't have a huge problem with any of them individually. My problem was signing all three to long-term deals at pretty high annual salaries. And sadly, the numbers show we'd probably be better off with with three Laker wings instead.

I'm on record this past summer preferring to sign DeMarre Carroll at $2.5 million per year over the deal we gave Brewer. I'd much prefer to have Carroll, Martin and a couple of those three Laker wings right now instead of Brewer, Budinger and Shved.

Martin's still averaging close to 20 PPG. Like I continue to say to you Lip, his 6.5-7M salary a year is cheap for his production and he's a sure starter in the NBA. Brewer's had a down week and a half, but he's still shown that he's a starter in the league (to this point). None of the three you seem to favor are anything close to starting caliber. I'll take the starters all day.

Had we done what you wanted, who'd be our starting SF? Please don't tell me you'd want Xavier Henry starting... Blegh.

Also, Shved was already here before the off-season. Not really fair to put him in the free agent acquisition conversation considering there was nothing we could do about it; he was just here.

Based on numbers:

Martin > Nick Young
Brewer > Henry
Bud (injured) < Meeks

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I was out doing a sunrise hike to the top of Masada overlooking the Dead Sea...good excuse for missing what sounds like an ugly game! I don't see anyone in the box score with a good line except Love and Luc. 35% from the floor and 23% on threes? I'm hearing a lot of love for Pek in this thread, but 7 for 18 from your center just isn't going to cut it.

I had this one forecasted as a win...at least until Kobe went down. I think we have a much better chance in this game with Kobe playing, even with our horrible shooting. The Lakers have been better without him this year. I remember them having a great shooting game like this in their opener against the Clippers. They seem to want to prove something to the world when their star goes down, and that's what we got tonight.

The Wolves are definitely the better team, just like the Blazers were the better team on our court a couple nights ago. But he better team doesn't always win in the NBA as we showed Wednesday and the Lakers showed tonight. Now we get the Clips, certainly a tougher team than the Lakers. We're going to need to shoot the basketball a lot better to have a chance in that one.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'm sure it was written about a lot already... but Brewer was atrocious. Offensively... defensively.

It's what happens when certain guys are asked to do more than they're capable of doing. Saunders has stated publicly that Barea is better at 15 - 20 mins than he is at 30. Brewer is the same kind of guy. Energy guys... not NBA starters.

But that brings up another question... again: Why are the Wolves paying $5M for energy wings? It seems like almost every other team has been able to find guys like that for 1/3 the price.

[Lipoli390]

Cam -

Don't just look at Martin's scoring average. Look at his shooting percentage compared to both Young and Henry. Then consider Martin's defense compared to Henry's and his age compared to both Henry and Young. Finally look at the salary difference. Martin is not a sure NBA starter. He wasn't a starter with the Thunder. And his contract is not an easy one to move considering its length, his age (31), his history of injury (averaged around 65 games per season) and the one-dimensional nature of his game (perimeter shooter).

Brewer has been in the League a long time. So you have to look at his entire career, not just this season. He has been a perennial bench player who gives you energy and disruptive defense off the bench, but who can't handle the ball or shoot his way out of a paper bag. That's who he is. He played over his head to start this season, trading largely off of Love's incredible outlet passes. Opponents are now taking that outlet away. So we see Brewer regressing to the mean and finding his level. I like him as a bench player at $3.5 or even $4 million a year, but not as a starter at $5million per year for 3 years.

It's fair to consider Shved because there was little reason to believe we could rely on him this season considering how poorly he plated the last two-thirds of last season -- further reason to have looked at signing cheap free agent wings last summer like Meeks, Henry or Young.

Kahn had a bad three years here as GM. Flip had a bad summer. The result is a .500 lottery team. That's not a pleasant reality, but it is reality.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Cam -

Don't just look at Martin's scoring average. Look at his shooting percentage compared to both Young and Henry. Then consider Martin's defense compared to Henry's and his age compared to both Henry and Young. Finally look at the salary difference. Martin is not a sure NBA starter. He wasn't a starter with the Thunder. And his contract is not an easy one to move considering its length, his age (31), his history of injury (averaged around 65 games per season) and the one-dimensional nature of his game (perimeter shooter).

Brewer has been in the League a long time. So you have to look at his entire career, not just this season. He has been a perennial bench player who gives you energy and disruptive defense off the bench, but who can't handle the ball or shoot his way out of a paper bag. That's who he is. He played over his head to start this season, trading largely off of Love's incredible outlet passes. Opponents are now taking that outlet away. So we see Brewer regressing to the mean and finding his level. I like him as a bench player at $3.5 or even $4 million a year, but not as a starter at $5million per year for 3 years.

It's fair to consider Shved because there was little reason to believe we could rely on him this season considering how poorly he plated the last two-thirds of last season -- further reason to have looked at signing cheap free agent wings last summer like Meeks, Henry or Young.

Kahn had a bad three years here as GM. Flip had a bad summer. The result is a .500 lottery team. That's not a pleasant reality, but it is reality.

Martin: .410 FG, .397 3P, .931 FT.
Henry: .431 FG, .367 3P, .627 FT.
Young: .445 FG, .396 3P, .798 FT.

All three of them are roughly around the same shooting percentages. Martin being the best 3P and FT shooter out of them whereas Henry and Young likely have a better FG% since they can get to the rim (more athleticism). What goes in Martin's favor, though, is his ability to draw fouls better than both of them. No way is Henry or Young better than Martin as a starter.

Also, you really want to argue that K-Mart isn't a sure starter? Really? Because of one season where he played with the Thunder? The same OKC team that ran James Harden off the bench for years? That's just how they operate. Their starters have enough offense to do that. Thabo's the starter and would get replaced by Harden, or last year Martin. Not a good statement from you there, Lip. As for his contract and being able to move it, teams that feel like they're a move away would love to acquire Martin. Shooters don't lose their shot and Kevin's had that his whole career. Usually an efficient scorer, but obviously his usage has been too high this year. We'll never agree about his contract I suppose. I look at it as a bargain and you think it's a terrible overpay. Big difference in thinking.

I called Brewer a starter because of how his played the majority of this season. For the most part, he had been playing as an above average starting small forward. Has he come back down somewhat? No doubt about it, but I wouldn't have been happy pre-season with Nick Young or Xavier Henry as our starting SF that's for damn sure. Your hindsight is 20/20 if you would have rather had Young/Henry over Brewer before the season. No GM in the league would have agreed. Also, $5M per year for how Corey was playing was also looking very good. It's still not terrible as you would make it out to be. If only we could have signed Xavier Henry instead... Oh boy, we'd be so much better. Blegh. Much sarcasm.

Was anyone in the organization really relying on Shved this year? I know us as fans were hoping he'd play better, but signing Martin/Bud/Brewer looked like we were suring up our wings even without Shved producing. The problem is Bud went down. So no, it's not fair to consider Shved when you're talking about FA signings because Flip already took into account that Shved might not be productive.

Funny, just two weeks ago you and everybody else would have agreed that Flip had a good summer. Now that we've had two bad losses, Flip's been terrible and all his signing suck. Pretty quick flip-flop there. Lip's been waiting for the chance to cry out that he was right lol. Give it another 20 games or so. Maybe you'll flip back over. We'll be waiting for you.