interesting info on a possible trade here:

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, Good points, but getting an Adelman-type player doesn't really do anything for us if that player isn't very good. I'm not even sure he's that much of an Adelman prototype wing anyway. Yes, he is a vastly better passer than Williams, but Adelman also values off-the-ball movement and hard basket cuts. I'm not sure this is an area he excels at, whereas Williams at least makes a better target given his size and strength going to the hoop.

The fact is that Williams played the 4th most minutes for the Wolves as a rookie and the 5th most minutes last season. Minutes have never been an issue with him, despite the perception. Yes, he's in Adelman's doghouse, so to speak, but at the end of the day he's going to get PT because he is one of the few guys on the bench that can produce some offense. And don't forget that he will still see PT as a 4 backing up Love and at times playing next to Love when Kevin slides over to the 5. He will never be a "pure" 3, nor does he need to be one, especially if Budinger eventually comes back.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Outside of Turner, I can only see two other trades that make sense that net us a starting SF which is our main weakness right now. The first would be D Will and filler to the Wizards for Ariza's expiring and maybe a protected first. Okafor is in the last year of his deal (they could afford D Will beyond this year) and the Wizards don't really have any 4's on the team while they would still have Webster and Porter after the trade and get a stretch 4 to go next to Nene in the starting lineup (a better Vesely). The other deal has no chance of happening, but actually makes sense for both teams is D Will and picks for Harrison Barnes and filler to keep them out of the luxury tax. GS doesn't have a backup 4 and they have Thompson, Iggy and Green who can all play the 3. Unless they want to play Barnes at the 4 most of this year, he will also be playing out of position like D Will. Other than those two deals where one is not likely and the other isn't exactly maximizing D Will's youth and potential, there just isn't anything out there that fits what we actually need.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Never been that big of an Ariza guy honestly. Definition of a journeyman. Used to be known for defense and stat-stuffing. Both of those areas he's on the downward trend. Likely have to give up D-Will to get him. No thanks. Good thought, th

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Question for everyone. Do you think Arron Afflalo and Kevin Martin could coexist? My first thought would be no, not a chance. But it's something to discuss since we're on the subject of trades. Would Afflalo get destroyed guarding SFs?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Outside of Turner, I can only see two other trades that make sense that net us a starting SF which is our main weakness right now. The first would be D Will and filler to the Wizards for Ariza's expiring and maybe a protected first. Okafor is in the last year of his deal (they could afford D Will beyond this year) and the Wizards don't really have any 4's on the team while they would still have Webster and Porter after the trade and get a stretch 4 to go next to Nene in the starting lineup (a better Vesely). The other deal has no chance of happening, but actually makes sense for both teams is D Will and picks for Harrison Barnes and filler to keep them out of the luxury tax. GS doesn't have a backup 4 and they have Thompson, Iggy and Green who can all play the 3. Unless they want to play Barnes at the 4 most of this year, he will also be playing out of position like D Will. Other than those two deals where one is not likely and the other isn't exactly maximizing D Will's youth and potential, there just isn't anything out there that fits what we actually need.

Ariza was absolutely on my short list of guys to look at once it was determined AK wasn't coming back, along with DaMarre Carroll and Al-Farouq Aminu. He is a legit plus-level defender and, unlike Turner, actually matches or betters Williams in terms of his overall production. He's not great, but I think he would be better than Brewer, Turner, or Williams for that matter.

[Coolbreeze44]

Rick is going to get his way and Williams wiil be traded. This will be done to accommodate Rick who will probably retire after the season when he realizes he doesn't have a team that can make a playoff run. And the NBA franchise known for its follies will be known for another one.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Rick is going to get his way and Williams wiil be traded. This will be done to accommodate Rick who will probably retire after the season when he realizes he doesn't have a team that can make a playoff run. And the NBA franchise known for its follies will be known for another one.

Meh. Your overall assessment of the franchise is not off the mark, but Williams is probably lower down the list of assets mis-handled by the Wolves, and you and I differ in that I think it's not a matter of how Adelman has handled him, but instead I believe he should have been traded before he even stepped foot onto an NBA court. His ceiling is Antawn Jamison and probably always was. That's not a bad player, but certainly not someone who will move the needle in a significant way.

The Wolves have a woeful record in the draft which transcends front office. This has put them in the position of overpaying for mediocre and/or highly flawed veterans. Thus we have death by the 5 million dollar contract while other teams get better players to fill in key roles on rookie contracts. Think Danny Green, Chandler Parsons, or Gordon Hayward - all of whom are more productive and less expensive than the vets we end up signing or the lottery picks who we had hoped would pan out.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Just think if this organization had trade down instead of drafting D-Will and took Klay Thompson. How ridiculous would this team be right now? Ugh. Hindsight is ugly.

[Lipoli390]

I agree with Q on the Williams/Turner debate. I was a big fan of Turner's potential when he entered the draft. But the numbers tell the tale. Though 3 years younger than Turner with 1 year less NBA experience, Williams had a better field goal percentage, a better 3-point shooting percentage and more trips to the line than Turner. On a per minute basis, Williams also significantly out-rebounded and out-scored Tirner. Looking beyond the numbers, Williams is much bigger and more athletic than Turner. Is Turner a better ball-handler and passer than Williams? Yes. But Turner gets careless with his ball-handing and we don't need another playmaker with the ultimate playmaker as our PG. And as Q mentioned, we can do without another poor-shooting marginally athletic wing like Turner. I'd definitely rather stick with Williams if Turner is the alternative.

Nevertheless, I see the arguments on the other side. I think Long made a great point about going with an Adelman-type player (Turner) over a no -Adelman type (Williams). But like SJM and Cool, I think it's time that Adelman started adapting to the talent he has, including Williams. At the end of the day, if we end up dealing Williams for Turner and also get Taylor, I'll be OK with it. And it's conceivable that Turner might blossom playing for the Wolves next to Ricky and under Adelman. This team needs a genuine starting caliber SF -- something that Brewer is not. Maybe Turner is that guy.

[Lipoli390]

If Kahn hadn't traded away next year's first round pick, then maybe we could put a package together to get Barnes -- although it would still be unlikely. I'd favor dealing Williams for Ariza - provided we we got another good asset in return.