interesting info on a possible trade here:

[whatdtcom [enjin:6685945]]

FWIW, I've heard the Turner rumor too via my Wolves contact. So the NNN guy on the Rube Chat does have a good source.

DWill is a very nice player, but he just doesn't fit here---he's a 4 behind one of the top PF in the league and doesn't handle as good enough to play the 2 or 3. Is that bad? Only to the Wolves since we're down Bud and have an ailing Martin. And some point we need to move him because....

1. Resign Ricky is a must.
2. Keeping Love from opting out.
3. Team winning enough to get Adelmen to stay.

At some point, we have to stop "rebuiling" and play for the "NOW". And that's to win and not vie for a shot at Wiggins or whoever.

[bleedspeed]

I would love the trade mentioned up top. I am a fan of Jeff Taylor.

[mjs34]

I am not a fan of the trade for several reasons. First is that Williams is our only option at PF in case Love gets hurt again. DC is no where near capable of starting at PF for this team. It is one of the problems I have with Adelman. He knows this to be true, and proved it by starting DW at PF when Love went down, but is still on DW's ass.

Let's put a couple of facts on the table. DW is the best ball handling SF on this team (by a longshot if you aren't including Shabazz). That might he his closest competition. DW is our best backup at the PF position. DW is a better offensive player than Turner, and has shown no problem guarding SF's in the preseason.

I think we should send Adelman out to pasture. This league has clearly passed him by. What Adelman should be concerned about is who he will throw under the bus if we trade DW. I watched the Celtics (who are really bad), and tried to understand the genius offense that is Adelman. I am sorry but I didn't see it. We were outscored in the paint by players like sullinger and Bass, but yet we are paying over 25 mil a season to our PF and C, and their strength isn't defense. Adelman needs to start looking at what DW accomplishes, rather than his facial expressions. In other words start coaching the talent!

Why are we using Pek to distribute the ball at the elbow, versus leaving the ball in Rubio's hands???????

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Let's put a couple of facts on the table. DW is the best ball handling SF on this team (by a longshot if you aren't including Shabazz). That might he his closest competition. DW is our best backup at the PF position. DW is a better offensive player than Turner, and has shown no problem guarding SF's in the preseason.

Should the trade be made, Turner would then be the best ball-handling SF on this team and he is far better than D-Will in that aspect. I'd also like to know how D-Will is better offensively than Turner? At scoring? Yeah, he has the potential to be, but hasn't proved it in the regular season. Turner wins that area. Creating offense for others? Turner destroys D-Will in that aspect. Don't see your argument on how D-Will is better than Turner there.

Turner is also the better defender. He can also guard three different positions (PG, SG, SF). Defensive versatility would be welcomed with open arms on this team. Rubio and Brewer are the only guys that truly have that ability (Shved kind of, but ehhh).

[mjs34]

Turner had a PER of just over 12 last season and a TS% of under 50. Both of those are lower than DW's numbers so it isn't potential. DW gets to the line at a higher rate, and shoots a higher percentage of his shots from 3. Turner is an average defender at best. Turner has Zero ability to guard the PG position, and DW can guard the SF, and PF positions so Turner isn't any more versatile.

I think the wolves actually have more depth at SG then they do at PF, particularly looking ahead a year or two. DC's contract is up after this year, and has no ability to step in and cover for Love if he goes down. We have Barea, Shved and Brewer (maybe Shabazz) to take time at the SG spot if Martin goes down.

[Coolbreeze44]

I am not a fan of the trade for several reasons. First is that Williams is our only option at PF in case Love gets hurt again. DC is no where near capable of starting at PF for this team. It is one of the problems I have with Adelman. He knows this to be true, and proved it by starting DW at PF when Love went down, but is still on DW's ass.

Let's put a couple of facts on the table. DW is the best ball handling SF on this team (by a longshot if you aren't including Shabazz). That might he his closest competition. DW is our best backup at the PF position. DW is a better offensive player than Turner, and has shown no problem guarding SF's in the preseason.

I think we should send Adelman out to pasture. This league has clearly passed him by. What Adelman should be concerned about is who he will throw under the bus if we trade DW. I watched the Celtics (who are really bad), and tried to understand the genius offense that is Adelman. I am sorry but I didn't see it. We were outscored in the paint by players like sullinger and Bass, but yet we are paying over 25 mil a season to our PF and C, and their strength isn't defense. Adelman needs to start looking at what DW accomplishes, rather than his facial expressions. In other words start coaching the talent!

Why are we using Pek to distribute the ball at the elbow, versus leaving the ball in Rubio's hands???????

I love it when you knock Saint Rick down a couple notches. You are one of the few who will say anything negative about our head coach. He's a good coach and has had a good career, but most on this forum have him on way to high of a pedestal. I agree with most of what you say here. I wonder what DWill would perform like if we actually had a coach who didn't look for every opportunity to bury him. Sounds like some other team will get the opportunity to reap the benefits.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Turner had a PER of just over 12 last season and a TS% of under 50. Both of those are lower than DW's numbers so it isn't potential. DW gets to the line at a higher rate, and shoots a higher percentage of his shots from 3. Turner is an average defender at best. Turner has Zero ability to guard the PG position, and DW can guard the SF, and PF positions so Turner isn't any more versatile.

I think the wolves actually have more depth at SG then they do at PF, particularly looking ahead a year or two. DC's contract is up after this year, and has no ability to step in and cover for Love if he goes down. We have Barea, Shved and Brewer (maybe Shabazz) to take time at the SG spot if Martin goes down.

Ahh, the misleading stat that is PER. Ricky Rubio's a below average player in the NBA according to PER. It's as good of a stat as Pro Football Focus' grades they give NFL players after games. Neither are good.

If Turner's an average defender (according to you), then D-Will is certainly below average and I don't find that to be the case. Turner actually can guard the PG position. Have you watched a 76ers game?

In the NBA, it's also easier to find bench PFs than it is to find quality wing players. As a Minnesota fan, you should know that quite well. Also, do you really trust Barea and Shved right now to play the 2? Barea is a PG and I love him as our spark off the bench... at PG. I'm so done with watching undersized PGs play the SG spot. Watching Ridnour get abused was more than enough for me. Shved looks lost on the court. He still drives, jumps and kicks with nowhere to go with the basketball. His shooting doesn't look any better either. That leaves us with our starting SF and a rookie. No wonder Adelman wants wing help. His guy Budinger is hurt. Turner would be a big help to this team.

I'm fine with whatever decision the FO makes because I can see the reasons for either side. D-Will's potential alone makes it tough to trade him in the eyes of many. To help the team this year, RIGHT NOW, Turner would be better.

[TheGrey08]

Interesting idea from NattaNerNutta and if I recall correctly he posted on the ESPN forums quite a bit 2ish years ago, but was under a different name most of the time. Not sure I'm a fan of swapping D Will and Turner though.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I always think "fit" is an overrated quality when it comes to the NBA and we always obsess about it here. Just because Evan Turner is a more pure SF than Derrick Williams doesn't actually mean he's a better player. Results should always trump fit, unless all else is equal, which in this case they are not.

Go here to compare their career stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=turneev01&y1=2013&p2=willide02&y2=2013

The biggest problem with Turner is that he is a horribly inefficient shooter/scorer. His inability to knock down 3's and get to the line really inhibit his ability to produce offense. We already have enough wings that can't shoot or score: Brewer, Shved, Jeffers, Shabazz...Kevin Martin and the injured Budinger are the only two guys that can reliably knock down open shots on the wing. And while Williams is no sharpshooter himself, he at least gets to the line at a decent rate. And to top all of that off, he's 3 years younger!

Let's face it. While many of us loved these guys coming out of college (I really loved Evan Turner), both have been NBA disappointments thus far. A trade like this doesn't really move the needle in my mind.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Thanks for posting the comparative stats, q...clearly presents a portrait of two underachieving high draft choices.

But to me it also highlights why I would jump at a Williams for Turner trade. There isn't a meaningful difference in any of their statistics except one: assists. And this is an area that Rick Adelman covets in a player with his emphasis on sharing the ball. I would argue that the other significant difference between the two is defense. Neither is considered an elite defender, but I believe most observers would deem Turner as having the better chance of defending small forwards.

I don't disagree that "fit" is an overrated measuring stick. But Adelman's "perceived fit" is not, because it determines whether a player is going to get court time or not. Every time Adelman talks about Williams, it's not difficult to see that he just doesn't value him as a player, even when he is trying to be complimentary. Take his quote in this morning's Star Tribune, for example: "Derrick played hard, he tried to defend". "Tried to defend"...you can't make it up! I think Rick saw what we saw yesterday...Gerald Wallace salivating as he saw Derrick Williams lined up opposite him. I also thought Derrick worked hard yesterday, but he was completely overmatched in trying to defend Wallace.

I'm convinced Adelman is only going to give Williams significant minutes out of necessity, like last year. I'm afraid other GMs know this, and that is why Kahn/Flip have not been able to find value in possible Derrick trades. If the Evan Turner rumor is true, I think Flip needs to pounce on it. We would be trading a non-Adelman type player for an Adelman type, and I think that makes us better.