Summer League Game 2

[Lipoli390]

Q -- I wish you were wrong, but as Cool wrote, you nailed it. Flip's thinking is convoluted in many respects. There really is no solid quantitative or qualitative case for taking Shabazz and Flip's explanation, as you pointed out, doesn't hold up. Similarly, Flip's explantation for not taking McCollum doesn't hold up. He said he was too small. So what does Flip do in free agency? He tries to sign as his starting SG a guy with a wing span 3 inches shorter than McCollum's. Thankfully Martin and Budinger wanted to play for Adelman and with Rubio. So we've ended up with a decent summer. But so far I haven't seen anything from Flip to give me confidence in his ability to be a good top basketball executive for the Wolves going forward. I continue to believe he's in over his head. Hope I'm wrong.

[worldK]

What the 2 summer league have shown us so far is that the rookies are not ready to play much during the regular season.

You can see that bazz is trying to adjust his game, his shooting form, and trying to play unselfishly to change perceptions of him. He hasn't put it together yet in what he is trying to accomplish and it will take a while for him. Also concerned about his non scoring stats as q pointed out. 1.5reb/game and zero blocks and steals. He has to find a way to contribute even without scoring, because right now, he isn't a good nba level scorer.

Dieng has a long way to go as well. He started playing basketball late and he seems lost on offense at times. CJ is a 3rd string pf,you cant count on him to be a backup. Im glad flip signed turiaf. We needed a backup center with experience and turiaf fits the bill. He can be a mentor to dieng as well as they seems to have the same game, (defense,shot blocking, both are decent passers for a big).

Hummel is the best player on the team so far. We only have 1 roster spot left and we seems to have too many wings right now. (martin,brew,bud,shved,bazz,dw?). We may end up signing lorenzo brown instead but hummel would be a guy we should continue to hold rights to. Could be a good 3rd string sf for us down the road or a decent trade chip

[maelstrom11 [enjin:6599701]]

Lip....You must have met Flip at a twolves event or something and got refused an autograph or something by him??

Why all the negativity around the new GM? From what i can tell (Flip's luck or not) we are poised for one of the best season in wolves history. Flip picked up the SG we needed in Martin and retained an already nice bench. Loosing AK for a younger option like Brewer will be OK. The moves Kahn made were 10X more questionable than what Flip has done but never did I hear you hate on him so much.

Show me one post where you called out Kahn as "dull" or "not bright". Time will tell but this is the most negative I think I've ever seen you regarding a Twolves player or executive. What's the deal?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Haven't watched Game 2 yet, but in Game 1 Shabazz looked better at passing/defense than everyone gives him credit for. Personally, I think a lot of you hate on him too much. He's shown some passing instincts and a want to play defense. All he needs is to work on some technique things and he could be pretty good as a defender. His motor seems really good too so that should help him on D.

We need to keep remembering that this is just Summer League. That goes both ways. He could be absolutely horrendous or pretty good, but we shouldn't make a final opinion on him until the games actually count.

[markkbu [enjin:6588958]]

We are going to do much better this season than we did any of the last 4. At least Flip is showing that he knows how to improve the team.

[Lipoli390]

Maelstrom -- Is Flip your uncle? If so, I'm sorry I offended your family member.

I was very critical of Kahn on a number of occasions. What troubles me about Flip in particular are the internally inconsistent and sometimes nonsensical explanations he gives for what he's done. Giving size as his reason for not drafting a guy who wouldn't be expected to be more than a backup (McCollum) and then trying to sign an even smaller guy (Redick) to start at the same position. Drafting a guy because he can score in spite of and without explaining that player's horrendous lack of efficiency, which Q pointed out. Highlighting Brewer's corner three shooting last season while ignoring the fact that his percentage last season was unusually high compared to his career average. Saying it's not about what position you play but who you can defend and also saying Brewer might be a starter; yet providing no sense of how the 190 pound Brewer and equally thin Martin as our two starting wings can defend NBA SFs.

I'm not sure whether Flip is just trying to deceive us or is actually deceiving himself. He seems to bend or ignore facts way to easily to fit his decisions rather than allowing the facts to drive his decisions. That's why I'm so troubled by what I've seen so far from Flip.

Nevertheless, he hasn't made any super horrendous moves this summer like signing a Troy Hudson type to a long huge contract and he hasn't given a multi-year sizable deal to a Darko type who the rest of the league has concluded is a bust. I like the Martin signing and I'm glad Flip re-signed Budinger. I also like the Turiaf signing. However, I'm not sure how much better we are now then we were the end of last summer. We've significantly improved our three point shooting by adding Martin this summer, but we've taken a step back defensively losing AK47. I think we are a playoff team if everyone stays healthy, but I'm concerned about how far this current group of players can take us. We're in it for the long haul with this group given our cap situation and the length of the contracts the Wolves have agreed to this summer.

I'm looking forward to this upcoming season thanks largely to the players Flip inherited from his two predecessors and Flip's addition of Martin. But I have serious reservations about Flip's ability to run this organization going forward. As I've mentioned repeatedly, I hope I'm wrong about him. And in a year or two, I'll be the first to admit it if I am.

[JDvikes [enjin:6536888]]

What troubles my about Flip in particular are the internally inconsistent and sometimes nonsensical explanations he gives for what he's done. Giving size as his reason for not drafting a guy who wouldn't be expected to be more than a backup (McCollum) and the trying to sign a guy even smaller (Redick) to start at the same position. Drafting a guy because he can score in spite of and without explaining that player's horrendous lack of efficiency, which Q pointed out. Highlighting Brewer's corner three shooting last season while ignoring the fact that his percentage was unusually high compared to his career average. I'm not sure whether he's just trying to deceive us or is actually deceiving himself. He seems to bend or ignore facts way to easily to fit his decisions rather than allowing the facts to drive his decisions. That's why I'm so troubled by what I've seen so far from Flip.

This was the exact thing that drove me crazy right away as well, but I'll refrain from judgement until the product is on the floor.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Haven't watched Game 2 yet, but in Game 1 Shabazz looked better at passing/defense than everyone gives him credit for. Personally, I think a lot of you hate on him too much. He's shown some passing instincts and a want to play defense. All he needs is to work on some technique things and he could be pretty good as a defender. His motor seems really good too so that should help him on D.

We need to keep remembering that this is just Summer League. That goes both ways. He could be absolutely horrendous or pretty good, but we shouldn't make a final opinion on him until the games actually count.

My issue with Shabazz has nothing to do with his attitude, work ethic, or effort. He could be a model citizen in these facets and that's all fine and dandy. My problem with him is more fundamental. He seems to be physically lacking the skills and characteristics of an NBA wing - quickness, handles, ambidexterity, anticipation,etc. This guy has been preparing to be a professional basketball player practically his entire life. Perhaps he's hit his ceiling in some of these facets of the game. Guys don't suddenly develop a quick first step or advanced handles at age 20+. It just doesn't happen.

I do agree that he could evolve into a "3 and D" guy eventually and that's the case I made for him early on. Nothing he has shown in either college or Summer League demonstrates to me that he can be anything other than a catch-and-shoot SF that could eventually evolve into a good positional defender. But that's his ceiling. He simply isn't quick or skilled enough to be an all-around NBA wing scorer.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I have to admit I'm puzzled by the negativity surrounding Flip and his offseason moves. As I recall he came into the offseason with three goals: 1) improve the team's 3-point shooting, 2) Get an appropriate sized SG, 3) find a rim-protecting center. It's difficult to argue that he hasn't been 100% successful by 1) adding Martin and Shabazz, and bringing back Bud, 2) signing Martin, and 3) trading the 9th pick to obtain Dieng. I like a GM who lays out what his plan is, and then goes about executing it. The result is a much better balanced roster positioned to win 15 more games this year.

CJ McCollum is a good player, but I remain relieved that Flip did not take him with the 9th pick. Those who still wish we had drafted him must have erased all the memories of Luke Ridnour trying to guard SG's last year. I wish I could. But I will never forget watching Luke matched up with Kobe at Staples last year. Martin is not known as a defender, but at least his length will present some challenges to opposing SG's that Luke could not.

Lipoli, I was also confused about Flip's pursuit of Redick because of his wingspan, which is about equal to Luke's and almost 3" shorter than McCollum's. Wingspan is important to a defender, but I still argue that standing reach is a much more important measurement in defending SG's. And Redick's standing reach is almost 3" more than Luke's, and an inch and a half more than CJ's. McCollum simply doesn't have the size to be an adequate defender in the NBA.

Muhammad and Dieng admittedly haven't looked good in the first 2 summer league games. But ultimately Flip's first draft will be judged based on whether CJ is more valuable than the combination of Shabazz and Dieng. I'm confident that the Wolves are better off with the latter.

[Coolbreeze44]

Longstrange, are you okay with Flip giving away pick #26? Is there anything this organization could do that you would have a problem with? It's okay to question this franchise. We haven't been to the playoffs in a decade. Not everything is perfect and resolutely backing everything the front office does is short-sighted.