Brewer Trade

[Porckchop]

Ricky has had 4 years to establish himself. How many franchise players needed that much time to prove themselves? And he still hasnt completely.

[Papalrep]

Pork u dont like Ricky. What do you want to do? Trade him for who? Draft Mudai? What? Outside of Chris George, show me a point guard who would be better - someone we could get please. Don't say Parker, Curry or Lilliard. They aren't available.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Ricky has had 4 years to establish himself. How many franchise players needed that much time to prove themselves? And he still hasnt completely.

NBA players hit their prime around 26 or 27. He could easily develop into a top 5 PG in the next 2-3 years if his jumper continues to develop like it clearly showed earlier this year. The trick is to still be in the league when you hit your prime which he obviously will. You also forget he lost a year to an ACL injury so this is really his 3rd year actually playing and he was working his way towards franchise level. Just look at how different this team is with him off the court. The differential on both ends of the court is franchise level. He has a +25 point differential (15 points offensively and 10 defensively) on court versus off. I don't know how that isn't franchise level. To put that into perspective, Anthony Davis (best player in the league right now) is a +31 so Ricky isn't that far off. CP3 is a +18 in comparison and while Ricky isn't on his level it just goes to show how important Ricky is to this team which is the definition of a franchise level player.

[Porckchop]

My problem is that so many fans have shown way more patience for him and made more excuses for his failings than any player in the recent history of Minnesota sports. Why is that? How has he shown himself to be a franchise player? 2 of 4 years he's dealing with injuries and no one would dare call him injury prone . 3 years he's been a terrible shooter but fans just say give him time he'll figure that out. He's played with a top 5 player in the league and still couldn't lead this team to a .500 record. Why does he get so much rope?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

He gets so much rope because he is only 24 years old and he's only played 185 games in the NBA which is about 2 1/4 seasons. The expectations for fans in general have grown out of control for how quickly they think guys should reach their potential. How many players hit their potential and are true difference makers after 2 1/4 seasons of play? The common thought is year 3 is when you should really start evaluating a player and so far his numbers are promising for that 3rd year. We have people on this board pigeon-holing Wiggins as a number two option at best when he is only 19 years old and hasn't had any time to develop his game. There's no patience for players anymore. It takes years to adjust to this league and people have an attitude of guys should hit their potential within a year or two in the league or they are a bust. You talk about playing with a top 5 player and not hitting a .500 record. He missed most of his first season and then Love missed most of his second season so they got to play a little more than 1 season together. How is that fair to judge how good they could have been when the team built around them wasn't built around their strengths at all (no shooters and no interior defense)? People wrote off Bennett as a complete bust after his rookie year and he has shown this year that he is at least a rotation level player in this league. On a team that's not going to win this year or most likely next year either, why does it make any sense to lack patience with a player when we only need him to be a really good player in two years when we can do something about it. What benefit is it to give him no more rope because he isn't a star at 24 years old? It just seems like a petty attitude to say we should give up on him as a franchise player to be fair to the other players we gave up on.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Pork, A few thoughts on Ricky:

1. He's the franchise player THIS year, meaning that he's our best player given the state of our current roster. I don't think folks here consider him a franchise player in the more transcendent sense, such as Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, Durant, etc.

2. He's not paid like a franchise player. Franchise players are given max deals.Ricky was not given a max deal, therefore we're not expecting him to play like a max player.

3. He's fun to watch, especially for purists who love pass-first point guards. In fact, the only other PG I love to watch just as much is Rondo, because he's so damn unorthodox. Part of watching basketball involves being entertained. Ricky entertains people.

4. He hustles his ass off. Fans will overlook a lot of flaws when they see a player hustle.

5. Ricky gradually improved his numbers in his first three years of play. There was reason to believe that his improvement would continue this year.

I think you need to turn your gun sights to another player......

[TheFuture]

My problem is that so many fans have shown way more patience for him and made more excuses for his failings than any player in the recent history of Minnesota sports. Why is that? How has he shown himself to be a franchise player? 2 of 4 years he's dealing with injuries and no one would dare call him injury prone . 3 years he's been a terrible shooter but fans just say give him time he'll figure that out. He's played with a top 5 player in the league and still couldn't lead this team to a .500 record. Why does he get so much rope?

See Joe Mauer, please...

Also, he never played in 4th quarters with that top 5 player, who really isn't a top 5 player in this league.... Lebron, Durant, Davis, Curry, Paul...

I think the blames on missing .500 has everything to do with Love. Ricky wasn't the focal point in any year but this year.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Agreed with everything khans said, except for the part about Bennett. He's better defensively than he was last year, but he's still the perimeter playing, ball stopping PF with zero post game that I saw last year. He hasn't proven himself yet, not even as a rotation player. Hummel has surprisingly been better than him.

[mjs34]

Agreed with everything khans said, except for the part about Bennett. He's better defensively than he was last year, but he's still the perimeter playing, ball stopping PF with zero post game that I saw last year. He hasn't proven himself yet, not even as a rotation player. Hummel has surprisingly been better than him.

While Bennett hasn't done anything that jumps out at you this season, he certainly hasn't been worse than either of the other two PF's -

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=youngth01&y1=2015&p2=bennean01&y2=2015&p3=hummero01&y3=2015

Doesn't look like a ball stopper compared to the other two guys when looking at ast%, and watching him doesn't show that either. He takes the shot at the top of the key, or moves the ball around the perimeter. Not exactly a ball stopper.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Agreed with everything khans said, except for the part about Bennett. He's better defensively than he was last year, but he's still the perimeter playing, ball stopping PF with zero post game that I saw last year. He hasn't proven himself yet, not even as a rotation player. Hummel has surprisingly been better than him.

While Bennett hasn't done anything that jumps out at you this season, he certainly hasn't been worse than either of the other two PF's -

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=youngth01&y1=2015&p2=bennean01&y2=2015&p3=hummero01&y3=2015

Doesn't look like a ball stopper compared to the other two guys when looking at ast%, and watching him doesn't show that either. He takes the shot at the top of the key, or moves the ball around the perimeter. Not exactly a ball stopper.

Yeah, ball stopper is not the right term for Bennett as he does something with the ball (jumper from the top of the key or a pass) very quickly...almost never holds the ball. He has also shown good vision and the ability to make the clever pass, hence his superior assist rate compared to the other two PF's.

But I am still frustrated by aspects of his game, and I don't know whether it's all on him or if Flip shares some of the blame for limiting his game. Cam's point that he has not shown a post game is well taken, and he also doesn't put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket very often, even though he has excellent handles for a big man. I also am frustrated that he seems to do the same thing almost all the time. So often he gets the ball at the top of the key, and immediately passes the ball to the player on his left (usually Martin) and moves slowly into the paint. It's ineffective, and doesn't utilize his skills. His per 36 stats are fine, but the coaches need to find a way to get him involved in different ways on offense. I think he has enormous untapped potential.