Thunder should tank

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Nobody is saying the drafting part of their strategy is unethical. Their team building strategy is unethical. A max offer to Bledsoe or Monroe would have landed that player as neither the Suns or Pistons would have matched. That was well known and the 76ers have more than enough open cap space where a deal like that wouldn't affect their ability to do anything else. Stephenson wouldn't have even needed the max to be stolen away from the Pacers. All of those guys were looking to get paid, so I feel going to Philly would not have been an issue for any of them as long as they got paid. That is how most bad teams sign good players. They overpay. As far as the draft goes, Noel's skill set is that of a Center so they could have taken Randle at 3 who was also worthy of a pick that high. A Randle/Noel frontcourt would have great potential moving forward as their games would appear to complement each other well. Also, Saric is not coming over for 2 more years. They should have drafted any player that could play and develop this year over taking a guy you have to wait 2 years for when you already took a guy who is not playing this year. They should have ended up with either Randle/Saric or Embiid/anybody who could play and it would have been a draft that showed an effort to put a better product on the floor this year, but taking 2 guys in a draft this deep with high end talent who can't play this year says tanking all over it. I don't have a problem with their strategy, but I was under the assumption they might add one of those available free agents to take them from doormat status to somewhat respectable status with Embiid ready to play next year and Saric the year after. The only way this team could have been more ethical about their building strategy would have been to draft guys who could play or sign guys who could play, but they didn't do either which is the unethical part when it comes to charging fans a pretty penny to watch their crap product. Selling fans on the future potential of the team is fine, but you need to give the fans something for this year's team whether it be lower ticket prices or adding guys who are better than D League talent to the team even if it is big contracts for 1 or 2 years.

[Hicks123 [enjin:6700838]]

Nobody is saying the drafting part of their strategy is unethical. Their team building strategy is unethical. A max offer to Bledsoe or Monroe would have landed that player as neither the Suns or Pistons would have matched. That was well known and the 76ers have more than enough open cap space where a deal like that wouldn't affect their ability to do anything else. Stephenson wouldn't have even needed the max to be stolen away from the Pacers. All of those guys were looking to get paid, so I feel going to Philly would not have been an issue for any of them as long as they got paid. That is how most bad teams sign good players. They overpay. As far as the draft goes, Noel's skill set is that of a Center so they could have taken Randle at 3 who was also worthy of a pick that high. A Randle/Noel frontcourt would have great potential moving forward as their games would appear to complement each other well. Also, Saric is not coming over for 2 more years. They should have drafted any player that could play and develop this year over taking a guy you have to wait 2 years for when you already took a guy who is not playing this year. They should have ended up with either Randle/Saric or Embiid/anybody who could play and it would have been a draft that showed an effort to put a better product on the floor this year, but taking 2 guys in a draft this deep with high end talent who can't play this year says tanking all over it. I don't have a problem with their strategy, but I was under the assumption they might add one of those available free agents to take them from doormat status to somewhat respectable status with Embiid ready to play next year and Saric the year after. The only way this team could have been more ethical about their building strategy would have been to draft guys who could play or sign guys who could play, but they didn't do either which is the unethical part when it comes to charging fans a pretty penny to watch their crap product. Selling fans on the future potential of the team is fine, but you need to give the fans something for this year's team whether it be lower ticket prices or adding guys who are better than D League talent to the team even if it is big contracts for 1 or 2 years.

This is so ridiculous. To make silly statements that it was the 76er's "obligation" to pay players they perhaps see as overpaid and overrated (i.e. Bledsoe, Hayward, Monroe etc) is completely outrageous. The first MAJOR thing wrong here is, as LST points out, these players would have needed to actually sign the contract.....which is FAR from a given based on that teams lack of success as of late. This type of thinking is also a major part of what keeps teams in purgatory. It was always my arguement for overpaying Rubio. You sign a guy to a contract because he is WORTH that amount, not because someone else may outbid you. If a guy is worth $10M, and someone else is willing to pay $15M, you let him walk. That's how I feel about all of Hayward, Bledsoe, Monroe, Rubio, etc.

And they should have taken Randle? How would that have worked out? I know you will come back with..."his injury was an unknown", but I would tell you that health is always a wildcard and an unknown. And Randle had health issues of his own going into the draft. In fact, this is mainly what I remember hearing about him leading up to draft time...I believe it was a foot injury.

Yes, they could have put a team on the floor this year that perhaps won 30-35 games, but regardless of any FEASIBLE AND REALISTIC moves, they weren't making the playoffs. As a fan of the Wolves, this is what we have watched for 10+ seasons. Blah team, with little talent, too many overpaid players, and not a decisive future. I see what the 76er's are doing as a complete overhaul of a roster that was going nowhere, and had no winning future in store. I am not sure why this bothers folks so much. History shows that tanking, and seeking lottery picks, is not a surefire way to grow.....but sometimes, this is a teams only hope. If I was a fan of the 76ers, I would certainly not buy tickets....but I would also understand the moves they are making.

And the moves they have made, while at times a bit odd, are not out of the ordinary. You mention the Holiday move as one you see as questionable. The idea of trading current talent for future picks is not unique to this situation, or basketball in general. In fact, virtually EVERY trade in MLB is based on this type of move. A highly paid veteran player is almost always traded for prospects....which is exactly what they did. This makes it obvious they are PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE, but I don't know that this is tanking.

[Coolbreeze44]

There is no excuse for the Saric pick given the other circumstances they found themselves in. I can't see how that can be argued. But other than that, it's not so much who they drafted, it's the fact they have shut them down prematurely to make sure they don't garner any "needless" wins toward the end of the season. That is tanking. I don't know why we are even having this discussion.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I need to correct myself in an earlier post. It was Evan Turner and Lavoy Allen to the Pacers, not Moultrie.

And LST, I can argue that Saric wasn't the BPA, but it'll come off as my opinion on draft prospects. I'm not sure what good that'll do for this discussion.

I also wish you'd stop saying Sims has outperformed Hawes. Hawes in Philly > Sims in Philly, and it's not even close. Last year Hawes was putting up 13/8.5 with 3 assists and a block a game while shooting 40% from 3.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

The arguement that they should of traded guys like Thad and Turner because they wern't going to resign anyway as a justification for tanking makes no sense. They are leaving because they are tanking. If the 76ers wern't trying to tank, maybe those guys would want to stay. I mean in theory they could of had a lineup of:

MCW
Gordon
Thad
Noel
Turner

That would probably be a playoff team in the east. They would still have a major amount of cap space even giving Gordon the max that could easily fill out that team

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

As for the cap space thing. No they shouldn't have to overpay players but for what else are they doing with all that extra money? Pretty much the only thing is being able to take garbage players and get second round picks. Yea every so often there's a Manu or somebody in the 2nd round, but 95% of second round picks are guys who can't make it in the NBA. Even a FA worth around 2-4 million dollars is pretty much better then any second round gamble. They have like 10 2nd round picks in the next for years for what? No team is dumb enough to give up a lottery pick for the entire second round. It's beyond stupid

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Nobody is saying the drafting part of their strategy is unethical. Their team building strategy is unethical. A max offer to Bledsoe or Monroe would have landed that player as neither the Suns or Pistons would have matched. That was well known and the 76ers have more than enough open cap space where a deal like that wouldn't affect their ability to do anything else. Stephenson wouldn't have even needed the max to be stolen away from the Pacers. All of those guys were looking to get paid, so I feel going to Philly would not have been an issue for any of them as long as they got paid. That is how most bad teams sign good players. They overpay. As far as the draft goes, Noel's skill set is that of a Center so they could have taken Randle at 3 who was also worthy of a pick that high. A Randle/Noel frontcourt would have great potential moving forward as their games would appear to complement each other well. Also, Saric is not coming over for 2 more years. They should have drafted any player that could play and develop this year over taking a guy you have to wait 2 years for when you already took a guy who is not playing this year. They should have ended up with either Randle/Saric or Embiid/anybody who could play and it would have been a draft that showed an effort to put a better product on the floor this year, but taking 2 guys in a draft this deep with high end talent who can't play this year says tanking all over it. I don't have a problem with their strategy, but I was under the assumption they might add one of those available free agents to take them from doormat status to somewhat respectable status with Embiid ready to play next year and Saric the year after. The only way this team could have been more ethical about their building strategy would have been to draft guys who could play or sign guys who could play, but they didn't do either which is the unethical part when it comes to charging fans a pretty penny to watch their crap product. Selling fans on the future potential of the team is fine, but you need to give the fans something for this year's team whether it be lower ticket prices or adding guys who are better than D League talent to the team even if it is big contracts for 1 or 2 years.

This is so ridiculous. To make silly statements that it was the 76er's "obligation" to pay players they perhaps see as overpaid and overrated (i.e. Bledsoe, Hayward, Monroe etc) is completely outrageous. The first MAJOR thing wrong here is, as LST points out, these players would have needed to actually sign the contract.....which is FAR from a given based on that teams lack of success as of late. This type of thinking is also a major part of what keeps teams in purgatory. It was always my arguement for overpaying Rubio. You sign a guy to a contract because he is WORTH that amount, not because someone else may outbid you. If a guy is worth $10M, and someone else is willing to pay $15M, you let him walk. That's how I feel about all of Hayward, Bledsoe, Monroe, Rubio, etc.

And they should have taken Randle? How would that have worked out? I know you will come back with..."his injury was an unknown", but I would tell you that health is always a wildcard and an unknown. And Randle had health issues of his own going into the draft. In fact, this is mainly what I remember hearing about him leading up to draft time...I believe it was a foot injury.

Yes, they could have put a team on the floor this year that perhaps won 30-35 games, but regardless of any FEASIBLE AND REALISTIC moves, they weren't making the playoffs. As a fan of the Wolves, this is what we have watched for 10+ seasons. Blah team, with little talent, too many overpaid players, and not a decisive future. I see what the 76er's are doing as a complete overhaul of a roster that was going nowhere, and had no winning future in store. I am not sure why this bothers folks so much. History shows that tanking, and seeking lottery picks, is not a surefire way to grow.....but sometimes, this is a teams only hope. If I was a fan of the 76ers, I would certainly not buy tickets....but I would also understand the moves they are making.

And the moves they have made, while at times a bit odd, are not out of the ordinary. You mention the Holiday move as one you see as questionable. The idea of trading current talent for future picks is not unique to this situation, or basketball in general. In fact, virtually EVERY trade in MLB is based on this type of move. A highly paid veteran player is almost always traded for prospects....which is exactly what they did. This makes it obvious they are PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE, but I don't know that this is tanking.

The 76ers are obligated to pay the salary floor which they have failed to do. They will be required to pay up to the floor regardless if they bring in the talent or don't. A couple million of overpaying is the cost of doing business for a team as poorly constructed as their team, but guess what? That extra couple million is not enough to restrict them from making any other moves moving forward because of how cheap their roster is. I think it is outrageous that you think the Bledsoe's and Monroe's of the world wouldn't sign a max deal from them when that was exactly what they were trying to negotiate with their own teams. A max deal for them would have been a couple million overpay, but no more than $3/year because they are actually good players. $3 million is a reasonable cost to bring in a very good player for that joke of a franchise.

Drafting Randle would put them in the same boat they are already in if everything happens the exact same it did for the Lakers which is no guarantee. There's also the chance he doesn't break his bone playing for the Sixers which would give them a piece that can help them now and into the future. We'll never know, but it wouldn't have put them in any worse position than they are already in with Embiid.

Winning 30 games is still a top 10 pick and there is no guarantee a rookie would all of a sudden make them a 30 win team. They could still only win 20 games which is a top 3 pick with a rookie and that rookie is now 1 year closer to being prepared for this level than Embiid and Saric. This is a 15 win team which is a joke and should never happen in sports regardless of your long-term goals of the franchise. You can still win 30 games and have a good shot at winning the lottery. You don't need to be an embarrassment to get a good draft pick. Even paying players up to the floor would not have been enough to make them so good they drop half a dozen spots in the draft. This is an embarrassment of a team they are putting on the floor and they could have easily put something more respectful out there while still maintaining their goal of getting another high draft pick. They are a team full of 2nd rounder's and there are plenty of players who didn't get any calls this offseason who could have at least made them not a complete joke.

[Monster]

I don't see the point of paying a max salary guy just to have one good player on your team. That player may block another player from developing and what if that overpaid guy that you didn't really want all that bad in the first place gets hurt? Then you are screwed.

Just to clarify I think the Sixers should get blasted by fans and whoever else wants to for what they are trying to do but I think a lot of what they do makes a lot of sense and they have a plan (not just tanking building through young players and acquiring as many picks as possible) and they are staying true to that and not straying which quite frankly I have a certain amount of respect for. I do think they should be doing more for the fans though lowering ticket prices and all kinds of stuff to give fans who actually show up or care something.

Noel and Embiid seems like a really good pairing to me. Embiid has a huge offensive ceiling and Noel may have a skillset of a defensive C but he seems like a guy without the bulk to player there but looks like a sweet defensive long PF. Those guys could team for the dream bigman defensive combo while complimenting each other well enough on offense. Philly is basically swinging for the fences on every pick and they have what a lot of people said were the #1 overall guys in the past 2 drafts if not for injury. What's wrong with that? That seems like a pretty good use of picks to me. Saric is a guy that would have gone much higher if he was available this year. I can think of 2 top 10 picks recently that teams had to wait at least a year for in Rubio and Jonus and it looks like both guys were worth the wait.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

For every Ricky Rubio, there's a Jan Vesely.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

As I'm typing this the 76ers are down 26 to 64 to the Mavs.

Debate over