Camden wrote:"Fortunately he has LBJ and Kyrie with him this year. As long as James and Irving are healthy, the Cavs are going to be the favorite to win the East."
While this statement is technically true, let's not act like LeBron and Kyrie aren't fortunate to have Love as well. They aren't pre-season favorites without the best PF in basketball wearing a Cavs jersey. If you're looking to find the "least" important part of that big three, it's Kyrie Irving and it shouldn't be a discussion.
I don't agree. Irving is a top 5 PG all day. PG have a much bigger impact on the game more even playing next to LeBron. If we would have landed the first pick in the draft and got Irving we would be a contender in the West right now.
Camden wrote:"Fortunately he has LBJ and Kyrie with him this year. As long as James and Irving are healthy, the Cavs are going to be the favorite to win the East."
While this statement is technically true, let's not act like LeBron and Kyrie aren't fortunate to have Love as well. They aren't pre-season favorites without the best PF in basketball wearing a Cavs jersey. If you're looking to find the "least" important part of that big three, it's Kyrie Irving and it shouldn't be a discussion.
I don't agree. Irving is a top 5 PG all day. PG have a much bigger impact on the game more even playing next to LeBron. If we would have landed the first pick in the draft and got Irving we would be a contender in the West right now.
alexftbl8181 wrote:Love has 18 points in 13 minutes. Man is that guy gonna struggle
Alex, be careful...I can't remember who it was, but someone on the board was cautioning us during the last Wolves game not to draw conclusions from meaningless preseason games. Just wanted to give you a heads up in case he calls you out.
Actually, I think we can learn a lot from these games...about individuals more than teams. I watched some of the first half of the Cavs game last night, and Love was brilliant...on offense, at least. Defensively, he didn't play hard like he did in the first preseason game, but rather looked more like the guy we saw for 6 years. And the results were what we got used to also...18 points in the first half for Kevin, but his team down 3 at home to the hapless Bucks (who had the overrated, and scoreless, Greek Freak starting at PG!). It's just one game, but I think if either Irving or James plays last night and Kevin sits out, the Cavs win by double digits. Love continues to be an enigma...terrific offensive stats, but lacking the ability to lead a team to consistent victories, and that will b the book on him until he proves otherwise. Fortunately he has LBJ and Kyrie with him this year. As long as James and Irving are healthy, the Cavs are going to be the favorite to win the East.
haha I don't know who that asshole could be but I'm guessing he must be a pretty smart and handsome fella.
I think it goes more the notion of Love being a guy who puts up number on a bad team guy. The guy can rebound, he can shoot 3's within the offense, he can score in the post, he can get to the line, and his passing looks even better then before.
As far as defense, I think a lot of it had to do with Love's limitations and Adelman strategy. Kevin Love is never going to be a shotblocker, he's just not built for it. He could challenge more shots, but I think Adleman would of rather him stay out of potential foul trouble, especially with the Wolves bench. He played pretty good man on man, and took some charges, and rebounded great.
Honestly, I don't expect that to change too much in Cle. Hell, Lebron coasted on D last year, so I don't buy the "he's gonna get on Love if he doesn't play D garbage". Remember all the times the Wolves got up double digits to start games? Yea the Cavs should be able to do even better then that.
Love doesn't need to be a shotblocker to be a good defender. His only true limitation is his effort. Love is more than capable of being a plus defender. What he may lack in quickness, he more than makes up for in BBIQ.
I watched the game last night, and his D was excellent. His offense was horrible, and his outlet passes stunk, but he is going to have his off nights.
My point is whether Love's ego can survive the reduced shots, and whether he can continue to make the effort defensively. Anyone can change their MO for a number of games, but will that last throughout the season?
I am not sure where the "Lebron coasted on D" BS comes from. :confused:
Camden wrote:"Fortunately he has LBJ and Kyrie with him this year. As long as James and Irving are healthy, the Cavs are going to be the favorite to win the East."
While this statement is technically true, let's not act like LeBron and Kyrie aren't fortunate to have Love as well. They aren't pre-season favorites without the best PF in basketball wearing a Cavs jersey. If you're looking to find the "least" important part of that big three, it's Kyrie Irving and it shouldn't be a discussion.
I don't agree. Irving is a top 5 PG all day. PG have a much bigger impact on the game more even playing next to LeBron. If we would have landed the first pick in the draft and got Irving we would be a contender in the West right now.
Personally, I'll take: Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Mike Conley, and Deron Williams (looks great again) over Kyrie Irving. He's talented as hell-- probably the second most talented PG in basketball-- but he's been more flash than substance.
But your argument has nothing to do with mine. LeBron is the main ball-handler on his teams, and Kyrie will take a back seat. The Wolves landing Irving has absolutely nothing to do with pecking order of the Big Three in Cleveland either.
I'll leave it at this: Love can impact the game in elite fashion without having the basketball in his hands. Can Irving? No.
A lot of interesting discussion here about Love, and I'm not surprised...he's the kind of guy that's always going to generate a lot of disagreement in terms of what he actually contributes to a team.
I guess I have to side with alex and cam's opinion that Love is the second most important player on the Cavs, especially after reading more about Irving's defense. I have watched him play several times, but never really focused on his defensive shortcomings like I have with Love. But the reviews of his defense are terrible...it sounds like he is every bit as bad a defender as Kevin is. Apparently the Cavs were more successful last year when Dellavadova was on the court instead of Irving! I understand bleedspeed's point that the PG is often going to be the most important guy in the team, but Cam's rebuttal is well taken...any team with James makes the PG position much less important. And alex is also right...Love does almost everything better than Irving, although I would argue they are equally ineffective on defense.
Now that I understand a little more about Irving's poor defense, it makes me question the Cavs' championship chances even more. Three of the starting five are considered very bad defenders (unfortunately, the Wolves have the same problem, in fact probably worse), and assuming TT continues to start at C, four of the starting five have never played in the postseason. I'm certain you can't find an example of an NBA team winning a championship with just one of these limiting factors in place, much less both. Take the last time James formed a big 3, for example...Wade and Bosh both had playoff experience and were both considered plus defenders. If the Cavs get a ring this season, I will be prepared to anoint LeBron as easily the greatest player of all time.
Someone mentioned above that Love looked good on defense last night before he got hurt. I don't know, because I didn't see any of the game. But I do know how horrible he looked against Tel Aviv Maccabi and Milwaukee, although at least he showed more effort against Tel Aviv than I have seen in the past. To me, defense is comprised of three factors: physical (size, speed and length), technique and effort. Kevin is severely lacking in speed and length, and the rare occasions where he puts in a great effort on defense, it's easy to see that he doesn't possess a good concept of defensive technique and strategy. He makes up for his deficiencies somewhat by defensive rebounding and taking charges, but even with these skills, Love will always be a substandard defender.
The Cavs are going to be an exciting team to watch offensively this year, best in the league I predict... but defense is what counts in the post-season, and their deficiencies will be on display come playoff time.
longstrangetrip wrote:A lot of interesting discussion here about Love, and I'm not surprised...he's the kind of guy that's always going to generate a lot of disagreement in terms of what he actually contributes to a team.
I guess I have to side with alex and cam's opinion that Love is the second most important player on the Cavs, especially after reading more about Irving's defense. I have watched him play several times, but never really focused on his defensive shortcomings like I have with Love. But the reviews of his defense are terrible...it sounds like he is every bit as bad a defender as Kevin is. Apparently the Cavs were more successful last year when Dellavadova was on the court instead of Irving! I understand bleedspeed's point that the PG is often going to be the most important guy in the team, but Cam's rebuttal is well taken...any team with James makes the PG position much less important. And alex is also right...Love does almost everything better than Irving, although I would argue they are equally ineffective on defense.
Now that I understand a little more about Irving's poor defense, it makes me question the Cavs' championship chances even more. Three of the starting five are considered very bad defenders (unfortunately, the Wolves have the same problem, in fact probably worse), and assuming TT continues to start at C, four of the starting five have never played in the postseason. I'm certain you can't find an example of an NBA team winning a championship with just one of these limiting factors in place, much less both. Take the last time James formed a big 3, for example...Wade and Bosh both had playoff experience and were both considered plus defenders. If the Cavs get a ring this season, I will be prepared to anoint LeBron as easily the greatest player of all time.
Someone mentioned above that Love looked good on defense last night before he got hurt. I don't know, because I didn't see any of the game. But I do know how horrible he looked against Tel Aviv Maccabi and Milwaukee, although at least he showed more effort against Tel Aviv than I have seen in the past. To me, defense is comprised of three factors: physical (size, speed and length), technique and effort. Kevin is severely lacking in speed and length, and the rare occasions where he puts in a great effort on defense, it's easy to see that he doesn't possess a good concept of defensive technique and strategy. He makes up for his deficiencies somewhat by defensive rebounding and taking charges, but even with these skills, Love will always be a substandard defender.
The Cavs are going to be an exciting team to watch offensively this year, best in the league I predict... but defense is what counts in the post-season, and their deficiencies will be on display come playoff time.
In the east, whose the power forward that's really going to give Love fits in a playoff series? Nene? Pau? Bosh? Nobody's close. If he were in the West and had to go through LMA, Griffin, Ibaka, Randolph, Duncan, Dirk then we can worry a bit
longstrangetrip wrote:A lot of interesting discussion here about Love, and I'm not surprised...he's the kind of guy that's always going to generate a lot of disagreement in terms of what he actually contributes to a team.
I guess I have to side with alex and cam's opinion that Love is the second most important player on the Cavs, especially after reading more about Irving's defense. I have watched him play several times, but never really focused on his defensive shortcomings like I have with Love. But the reviews of his defense are terrible...it sounds like he is every bit as bad a defender as Kevin is. Apparently the Cavs were more successful last year when Dellavadova was on the court instead of Irving! I understand bleedspeed's point that the PG is often going to be the most important guy in the team, but Cam's rebuttal is well taken...any team with James makes the PG position much less important. And alex is also right...Love does almost everything better than Irving, although I would argue they are equally ineffective on defense.
Now that I understand a little more about Irving's poor defense, it makes me question the Cavs' championship chances even more. Three of the starting five are considered very bad defenders (unfortunately, the Wolves have the same problem, in fact probably worse), and assuming TT continues to start at C, four of the starting five have never played in the postseason. I'm certain you can't find an example of an NBA team winning a championship with just one of these limiting factors in place, much less both. Take the last time James formed a big 3, for example...Wade and Bosh both had playoff experience and were both considered plus defenders. If the Cavs get a ring this season, I will be prepared to anoint LeBron as easily the greatest player of all time.
Someone mentioned above that Love looked good on defense last night before he got hurt. I don't know, because I didn't see any of the game. But I do know how horrible he looked against Tel Aviv Maccabi and Milwaukee, although at least he showed more effort against Tel Aviv than I have seen in the past. To me, defense is comprised of three factors: physical (size, speed and length), technique and effort. Kevin is severely lacking in speed and length, and the rare occasions where he puts in a great effort on defense, it's easy to see that he doesn't possess a good concept of defensive technique and strategy. He makes up for his deficiencies somewhat by defensive rebounding and taking charges, but even with these skills, Love will always be a substandard defender.
The Cavs are going to be an exciting team to watch offensively this year, best in the league I predict... but defense is what counts in the post-season, and their deficiencies will be on display come playoff time.
In the east, whose the power forward that's really going to give Love fits in a playoff series? Nene? Pau? Bosh? Nobody's close. If he were in the West and had to go through LMA, Griffin, Ibaka, Randolph, Duncan, Dirk then we can worry a bit
Watching the game last night, it looks like Scola has his number. He was pushing him all over the floor last night.
longstrangetrip wrote:A lot of interesting discussion here about Love, and I'm not surprised...he's the kind of guy that's always going to generate a lot of disagreement in terms of what he actually contributes to a team.
I guess I have to side with alex and cam's opinion that Love is the second most important player on the Cavs, especially after reading more about Irving's defense. I have watched him play several times, but never really focused on his defensive shortcomings like I have with Love. But the reviews of his defense are terrible...it sounds like he is every bit as bad a defender as Kevin is. Apparently the Cavs were more successful last year when Dellavadova was on the court instead of Irving! I understand bleedspeed's point that the PG is often going to be the most important guy in the team, but Cam's rebuttal is well taken...any team with James makes the PG position much less important. And alex is also right...Love does almost everything better than Irving, although I would argue they are equally ineffective on defense.
Now that I understand a little more about Irving's poor defense, it makes me question the Cavs' championship chances even more. Three of the starting five are considered very bad defenders (unfortunately, the Wolves have the same problem, in fact probably worse), and assuming TT continues to start at C, four of the starting five have never played in the postseason. I'm certain you can't find an example of an NBA team winning a championship with just one of these limiting factors in place, much less both. Take the last time James formed a big 3, for example...Wade and Bosh both had playoff experience and were both considered plus defenders. If the Cavs get a ring this season, I will be prepared to anoint LeBron as easily the greatest player of all time.
Someone mentioned above that Love looked good on defense last night before he got hurt. I don't know, because I didn't see any of the game. But I do know how horrible he looked against Tel Aviv Maccabi and Milwaukee, although at least he showed more effort against Tel Aviv than I have seen in the past. To me, defense is comprised of three factors: physical (size, speed and length), technique and effort. Kevin is severely lacking in speed and length, and the rare occasions where he puts in a great effort on defense, it's easy to see that he doesn't possess a good concept of defensive technique and strategy. He makes up for his deficiencies somewhat by defensive rebounding and taking charges, but even with these skills, Love will always be a substandard defender.
The Cavs are going to be an exciting team to watch offensively this year, best in the league I predict... but defense is what counts in the post-season, and their deficiencies will be on display come playoff time.
In the east, whose the power forward that's really going to give Love fits in a playoff series? Nene? Pau? Bosh? Nobody's close. If he were in the West and had to go through LMA, Griffin, Ibaka, Randolph, Duncan, Dirk then we can worry a bit
Watching the game last night, it looks like Scola has his number. He was pushing him all over the floor last night.
Scola gets physical with Love and really gets under his skin. I remember him doing it when he was with the Rockets.
