Pacers game report

[SameOldNudityDrew]

I'd love it if the kid became a contributor off the bench this year. He looks like he has a ton of potential, but even on our relatively young team, he's not ready to beat out guys like Mo Williams, Brewer, Wiggins, Chase, even JJ, etc. for many backup guard and wing minutes, and Rubio and Martin are obviously the starters. Better to get him some playing time, see how he develops, wait to see if some minutes open up because of injury or trade, and then call him up then. I think the guy could really be good for us, but the time isn't right yet. Let's not blow this one.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Great write-up, thanks for taking the time to be our eyes and ears live and in person.

While I think Mo will be an upgrade over JJ, I'm still skeptical about the magnitude of the upgrade. He's currently shooting 58% from the field overall and 67% on 3-pointers. I can guarantee that he won't even be close to those numbers when the regular season concludes. We are witnessing a classic hot streak. What goes up, must come down.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying again: Mo Williams' shooting efficiency numbers have been on a downward trend for four straight seasons. That's literally hundreds of games worth of sample size. I trust that trend more than a four or five game preseason stretch, so color me skeptical about how effective he can truly be for us when the games actually count. But who knows? Perhaps he experiences a bit of a career renaissance in Flip's system.

Budinger's play has been very, very encouraging, and unlike Williams, Budinger is still fairly young. He proved in Houston that he can be a very solid rotation wing. And you can never have enough good shooters these days.

As for Dieng, I think a lot of us were expecting a second year leap, but it appears he's pretty much the same player. One thing we need to keep in mind is that Dieng was a relatively old rookie, and even if the game was still somewhat new to him, basketball analytics types will say that age by itself is negatively correlated to future improvement. What we see now with him may be what we get from here on out.....

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Agreed on Mo, Q. He's a scoring 1 who can distribute if he needs to, but he's not super efficient and he can be a little streaky. Also not the greatest defender. Still, he'll be able to play a little more in the offense than JJ, who scored almost entirely by pushing the ball in transition. (although I kind of liked Barea's pick and rolls with Pek).

Williams could be a good veteran locker room presence though, which is good. JJ doesn't seem to have earned a leadership position on the team, so Williams could maybe fill that role a bit, though I always thought he was kind of whiny and a little on the selfish side sometimes.

WIth Young and, surprisingly, Bennett looking fairly good, and with Pek hopefully healthy the pressure on Dieng is lower. It's nice to know we've got a backup C with some potential though, especially given Pek's injury history. So Dieng's been a bit of a disappointment this preseason, but probably our expectations were too high given his performance at the end of the year, and he can still play a key role on this team and still looks he could be a potential starting C someday. Hopefully.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Zgoda tweeted yesterday that Flip didn't seem very interested in playing combinations these final three games that he would use in the regular season. Seemed like an odd plan to me, and in actuality, I think we saw some firming up of the rotations Flip plans to use. I think that he is focused on this ten-man rotation:

PG: Rubio, Williams
SG: Martin, Bud
SF: Wiggins, Brewer
PF: Young, Bennett
C: Pek, Dieng

Shabazz, JJ, LaVine, Ronny and Robbie/GR3 will get minutes when matchups dictate it, or when the ten guys ahead of them need a blow or are injured. The only guy out of the rotation that bothers me is Shabazz. I've always been a supporter of his ability to score in bunches, but his lack of understanding of the team game puts him solidly behind the rotation wings. I hope he can prove me wrong in the next three pre-season games, because he could be a talented scorer for us.

Our bench scored 65 points compared to 42 for the starters. Our roster is so balanced that I think bench production will be a strength this year. Maybe no more 40 point first quarters, but also not the huge drop off we suffered through last year when Rick went to his bench.

[60WinTim]

As usual, Zgoda did a lousy job of interpreting what Flip said. He said we'll see some lineup combinations, but not for extended minutes. You can hear what Flip actually said here on soundcloud (but they seem to be having problems right now, so I'll have to get the link for you later...).

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

Thanks for that clarification, Tim. Jerry's tweet didn't make sense, and then was contradicted by Flip's rotations last night. We might see some strange combinations tonight on the back end of a BTB, but we should see the "real" rotations in the pre-season finale.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Zgoda tweeted yesterday that Flip didn't seem very interested in playing combinations these final three games that he would use in the regular season. Seemed like an odd plan to me, and in actuality, I think we saw some firming up of the rotations Flip plans to use. I think that he is focused on this ten-man rotation:

PG: Rubio, Williams
SG: Martin, Bud
SF: Wiggins, Brewer
PF: Young, Bennett
C: Pek, Dieng

Shabazz, JJ, LaVine, Ronny and Robbie/GR3 will get minutes when matchups dictate it, or when the ten guys ahead of them need a blow or are injured. The only guy out of the rotation that bothers me is Shabazz. I've always been a supporter of his ability to score in bunches, but his lack of understanding of the team game puts him solidly behind the rotation wings. I hope he can prove me wrong in the next three pre-season games, because he could be a talented scorer for us.

Our bench scored 65 points compared to 42 for the starters. Our roster is so balanced that I think bench production will be a strength this year. Maybe no more 40 point first quarters, but also not the huge drop off we suffered through last year when Rick went to his bench.

Yup, that rotation looks about right. It's tough to justify 'Bazz, LaVine, JJ, Ronny, and Robbie/GR3 being ahead of any of those other guys at this point. The one wildcard is if Bud or Brewer gets traded to make way for one of the younger wings.

I can definitely see Pek and Dieng playing for stretches together when we face the really big C-PF combos (of which many still exist; not everyone plays "small ball" these days). In those cases, Turiaf may get some spot minutes at Center as well.

But ultimately, we all know that on any given night, there is a 50%+ chance that one or more players of those 10 will be hurt. There will be plenty of chances for the others to get playing time.

[KiwiMatt]

Zgoda tweeted yesterday that Flip didn't seem very interested in playing combinations these final three games that he would use in the regular season. Seemed like an odd plan to me, and in actuality, I think we saw some firming up of the rotations Flip plans to use. I think that he is focused on this ten-man rotation:

PG: Rubio, Williams
SG: Martin, Bud
SF: Wiggins, Brewer
PF: Young, Bennett
C: Pek, Dieng

Shabazz, JJ, LaVine, Ronny and Robbie/GR3 will get minutes when matchups dictate it, or when the ten guys ahead of them need a blow or are injured. The only guy out of the rotation that bothers me is Shabazz. I've always been a supporter of his ability to score in bunches, but his lack of understanding of the team game puts him solidly behind the rotation wings. I hope he can prove me wrong in the next three pre-season games, because he could be a talented scorer for us.

Our bench scored 65 points compared to 42 for the starters. Our roster is so balanced that I think bench production will be a strength this year. Maybe no more 40 point first quarters, but also not the huge drop off we suffered through last year when Rick went to his bench.

Those lineups seem about right LST. The starting lineup has a lot of holes, but dam that's a good second unit. I can see our bench beating up a lot of other teams second units, unfortunately dare I say they'll be playing catch up after the starting lineup gets a spell. Quite the opposite of last season!

[Carlos Danger]

As for Dieng, I think a lot of us were expecting a second year leap, but it appears he's pretty much the same player. One thing we need to keep in mind is that Dieng was a relatively old rookie, and even if the game was still somewhat new to him, basketball analytics types will say that age by itself is negatively correlated to future improvement. What we see now with him may be what we get from here on out.....

I agree with everything you wrote in your post, but I'm less worried about Dieng. Through 5 preseason games he's averaging 10.6 points and 7.2 rebounds - which I think is pretty solid. And even though Dieng is a little older, I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some improvement based solely on experience and getting more time. Pek himself broke into the NBA at age 25 and certainly improved each year - so hopefully Dieng does the same.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Carlos, Yes, Dieng is still doing a decent job on the boards and getting to the line. Don't get me wrong - I think Dieng is an excellent backup to Pek and even a solid NBA starting Center by many measures. I definitely think he'll continue to improve defensively, as most NBA players' defensive development tends to lag their offensive development, especially bigs, who have a ton of nuances they need to master in terms of PnR defense, inside positioning, weakside help, etc.

But in terms of pure box score type stuff - FG%, points, blocks, steals, assists, rebounds - I'm not sure if there is a ton of improvement we're going to see.