"NBA Legion ?@MySportsLegion 34s
T-Wolves are ready to agree on a trade that sends Kevin Love to Cleveland, but Cavs are refusing to include multiple 1sts. (@GeryWoelfel)"
If Flip is pushing for multiple 1sts that makes me happy.
khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.
Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.
Lip,
I believe what you say above, but I have a VERY hard time grasping this. Why the love from Flip? Shabazz has shown me absolutely nothing to make me think he becomes any more than a chucker off the bench. I also like the way he crashes the glass, but he will be one of those guys that stagnates the offense...thus the reason his ceiling is that of a bench scorer. I would actually MUCH prefer to deal Shabazz over guys like Brewer because, while Brewer isn't a great shooter, he understands his role and plays much more within the confines of the game. Brewer is simply the better basketball player, and I honestly don't see that changing. I think if Shabazz has "appeal" to the Cavs, you deal him and don't look back. I hope I am wrong on this, but this situation smalles of D-Will all over again.
Hicks -- I agree with a lot of what you say. All I can say is that Flip really likes Shabazz. Like you, I have my doubts and I'd be willing to include him in a Cleveland deal if necessary. But I'm not worried about Shabazz becoming another D-Will. Shabazz works a lot harder and has much better instincts on the court. Williams is a dear in headlights everytime he steps on the court. He's soft and has a happy-go-lucky attitude that you you generally see in players that, even if talented, never make it in the NBA. Remember Wes Johnson? Shabazz is all business on the court, and I'm told in practice too. He is the oppostite of soft and is extremely hard nosed and dedicated to becoming good.
My guess is if Flip does like Shabazz its because of that competitiveness and now the guy plays like his hair is on fire and would knock the teeth out of an opponent without a thought. Its nice to have a wing type guy that has that mentality. I'm not sold on him but I like having a guy that's kinda badass with enough of a body to back it up.
"NBA Legion ?@MySportsLegion 34s
T-Wolves are ready to agree on a trade that sends Kevin Love to Cleveland, but Cavs are refusing to include multiple 1sts. (@GeryWoelfel)"
Thanks for posting, Cam! I'm not sure about the source, but the report rings true in my mind. As we've discussed in this thread, I sense that the deal is almost done but is now down to ancillary pieces like draft picks. This report falls in line with that sense.
"NBA Legion ?@MySportsLegion 34s
T-Wolves are ready to agree on a trade that sends Kevin Love to Cleveland, but Cavs are refusing to include multiple 1sts. (@GeryWoelfel)"
If Flip is pushing for multiple 1sts that makes me happy.
Couldn't agree more Grey. Flip is a hero at this point.
khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.
Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.
Lip,
I believe what you say above, but I have a VERY hard time grasping this. Why the love from Flip? Shabazz has shown me absolutely nothing to make me think he becomes any more than a chucker off the bench. I also like the way he crashes the glass, but he will be one of those guys that stagnates the offense...thus the reason his ceiling is that of a bench scorer. I would actually MUCH prefer to deal Shabazz over guys like Brewer because, while Brewer isn't a great shooter, he understands his role and plays much more within the confines of the game. Brewer is simply the better basketball player, and I honestly don't see that changing. I think if Shabazz has "appeal" to the Cavs, you deal him and don't look back. I hope I am wrong on this, but this situation smalles of D-Will all over again.
Hicks -- I agree with a lot of what you say. All I can say is that Flip really likes Shabazz. Like you, I have my doubts and I'd be willing to include him in a Cleveland deal if necessary. But I'm not worried about Shabazz becoming another D-Will. Shabazz works a lot harder and has much better instincts on the court. Williams is a dear in headlights everytime he steps on the court. He's soft and has a happy-go-lucky attitude that you you generally see in players that, even if talented, never make it in the NBA. Remember Wes Johnson? Shabazz is all business on the court, and I'm told in practice too. He is the oppostite of soft and is extremely hard nosed and dedicated to becoming good.
My guess is if Flip does like Shabazz its because of that competitiveness and now the guy plays like his hair is on fire and would knock the teeth out of an opponent without a thought. Its nice to have a wing type guy that has that mentality. I'm not sold on him but I like having a guy that's kinda badass with enough of a body to back it up.
In my mind, I am not sure which type of player is worse long-term....a guy like Williams that certainly has skill but doesn't ever really get it because he is mentally incapable and physically soft, or a guy like Shabazz that is known to be a hard-working guy but seemingly doesn't have the skills to back that up. While he may be "all-business" on the court for practice and what-not, he is just severly limited in talent and what he brings to the table (outside scoring). For a guy that has seemingly worked so hard in his life, he certainly doesn't have a ton of skill to show for it.
I'm fine with Flip pushing for multiple firsts. But let's keep in mind that Cleveland's own picks will be near the bottom of the first round into the forseeable future. Cleveland has two first round picks with some value: (1) Miami's 2015 pick, which I believe is lottery protected; and (2) the Grizzlies' pick which is protected in a way that it probably won't be available until 2017 as a lottery-protected pick. The Miami pick seems like the only one really worth holding out for.
Flip's a smart guy. I'm guessing he's holding out for multiple with the idea of compromising by settling solely for the Miami pick. Of course, this report may be totally bogus and the two sides may still be negotiating which players will be included. Stay tuned.
lipoli390 wrote:I'm fine with Flip pushing for multiple firsts. But let's keep in mind that Cleveland's own picks will be near the bottom of the first round into the forseeable future. Cleveland has two first round picks with some value: (1) Miami's 2015 pick, which I believe is lottery protected; and (2) the Grizzlies' pick which is protected in a way that it probably won't be available until 2017 as a lottery-protected pick. The Miami pick seems like the only one really worth holding out for.
Flip's a smart guy. I'm guessing he's holding out for multiple with the idea of compromising by settling solely for the Miami pick. Of course, this report may be totally bogus and the two sides may still be negotiating which players will be included. Stay tuned.
Let's be honest unless those teams bottom out (Memphis maybe if they lose Gasol or something) those picks are all 20 something picks so they don't have a ton of value. Miami is gonna be in the playoffs in the east for a while (unless Wade and Deng get hurt which could easily happen lol). Flip should be asking for as much as he can get and if the Cavs want Love I can't imagine giving up another one of those picks is gonna keep them from doing a deal and those picks can help the Wolves as players or assets.
khans2k5 wrote:There is no reason to throw in GR3. He's not going to hold up the trade if we say we don't want to include him. Bazz makes less than 3 million which could fit into pretty much any trade. With Bud already at the 3 and Wiggins probably being a 3 at the start because of his handle, Bazz is expendable in my eyes. It makes no sense for us to keep the more expensive player who is just as low on the depth chart and it makes the deal look better for Cleveland getting a lottery pick back with Love. GR3 is going to be a better basketball player than Bazz so I don't want to include him because he is not a throw in level player in my mind. We are giving them a star and rotation player. That should be enough to land Wiggins/Bennett/Thompson or Waiters and a pick. There should be no need to include GR3 and I'll be disappointed if he does.
Kahns -- I can tell you with 100% certainty that Flip will not include Shabazz in any deal for either Wiggins or Klay Thompson. In fact, Flip's faith in Shabazz as a SF might be enough for Flip to favor the Klay deal over a Wiggins deal, although I still think Flip will opt for the Wiggins deal if offered.
Lip,
I believe what you say above, but I have a VERY hard time grasping this. Why the love from Flip? Shabazz has shown me absolutely nothing to make me think he becomes any more than a chucker off the bench. I also like the way he crashes the glass, but he will be one of those guys that stagnates the offense...thus the reason his ceiling is that of a bench scorer. I would actually MUCH prefer to deal Shabazz over guys like Brewer because, while Brewer isn't a great shooter, he understands his role and plays much more within the confines of the game. Brewer is simply the better basketball player, and I honestly don't see that changing. I think if Shabazz has "appeal" to the Cavs, you deal him and don't look back. I hope I am wrong on this, but this situation smalles of D-Will all over again.
Hicks -- I agree with a lot of what you say. All I can say is that Flip really likes Shabazz. Like you, I have my doubts and I'd be willing to include him in a Cleveland deal if necessary. But I'm not worried about Shabazz becoming another D-Will. Shabazz works a lot harder and has much better instincts on the court. Williams is a dear in headlights everytime he steps on the court. He's soft and has a happy-go-lucky attitude that you you generally see in players that, even if talented, never make it in the NBA. Remember Wes Johnson? Shabazz is all business on the court, and I'm told in practice too. He is the oppostite of soft and is extremely hard nosed and dedicated to becoming good.
My guess is if Flip does like Shabazz its because of that competitiveness and now the guy plays like his hair is on fire and would knock the teeth out of an opponent without a thought. Its nice to have a wing type guy that has that mentality. I'm not sold on him but I like having a guy that's kinda badass with enough of a body to back it up.
In my mind, I am not sure which type of player is worse long-term....a guy like Williams that certainly has skill but doesn't ever really get it because he is mentally incapable and physically soft, or a guy like Shabazz that is known to be a hard-working guy but seemingly doesn't have the skills to back that up. While he may be "all-business" on the court for practice and what-not, he is just severly limited in talent and what he brings to the table (outside scoring). For a guy that has seemingly worked so hard in his life, he certainly doesn't have a ton of skill to show for it.
I'd take Bazz Williams is an NBA player I suppose but he hasn't shown anything despite being physically talented. Bazz hasn't exactly shown anything either but I think he has a chance to break through with some usefulness if he is willing to play hard something it never seemed like Williams was really commited to. I think Bazz has some talent and I'm pulling for Bazz not hoping for a lot but yeah.
It wasn't that Williams didn't play hard, he just truly didn't know what to do on the court. I'd watch him and he would have to constantly think before reacting or making a move. Nothing came naturally except for his raw athletic ability. He was a very frustrating player to root for.
