Thoughts about Kevin Martin

[60WinTim]

I don't have a problem with Martin's comments. Heck, I find them refreshing! I was wondering what his attitude would be considering two of his reasons for coming here -- Love and Adelman -- are gone. But he seems to be embracing the new role of being a leader both on and off the court.

I really like the makeup of this team, and that includes Martin.

[Crazysauce]

I really dislike Martin, his attitude, and his play. His play isnt conducive to winning. He is the guy on this team I would most like to see moved. Playing offense and not playing any defense whatsoever doesnt cut it for me. His effort on defense has always been terrible. Will not change.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The disdain for K-Mart is a little ridiculous. He was an efficient 19 PPG scorer last year as the second option on offense, though one could argue Pekovic was the second option before going down with an injury. He's a consistently good three-point shooter and an elite free throw shooter. That's what his label his.

I'd also argue that he's a capable post scorer from the SG position. He's taller than most off guards and gets his shot off at will. Martin's also an underrated cutter and uses screens to get open as well as anyone in the league. In my opinion, he's a smart basketball player, but shouldn't be used for iso basketball. That was one of Adelman's biggest problems for me last year. Keep him off the ball and let him do what he does best.

He makes $6.5M a year. That's extremely reasonable for his production on offense. You can argue the length of contract if you'd like, but his skill set revolves around shooting and off-ball movement. These skills last forever. If he was a dribble penetration player, or someone that relied on athleticism, I'd understand how his skills might decline. Martin's a shooter, though. Shooters never lose their shot, as the saying goes.

That's Martin as a player. I'd like to see Martin the mentor be a hands on type of guy. Teaching LaVine and Wiggins how to be professionals first and foremost. Also, I'd like to see their off-ball movement get better because they see how Martin plays. I'm also sure that Martin could help the young guys learn ways to draw fouls, as this is also something K-Mart's done well his entire career.

I'd keep the guy. I think Flip would agree. We have a very nice balance of vets and youth, and Martin plays a role in that.

[Monster]

The disdain for K-Mart is a little ridiculous. He was an efficient 19 PPG scorer last year as the second option on offense, though one could argue Pekovic was the second option before going down with an injury. He's a consistently good three-point shooter and an elite free throw shooter. That's what his label his.

I'd also argue that he's a capable post scorer from the SG position. He's taller than most off guards and gets his shot off at will. Martin's also an underrated cutter and uses screens to get open as well as anyone in the league. In my opinion, he's a smart basketball player, but shouldn't be used for iso basketball. That was one of Adelman's biggest problems for me last year. Keep him off the ball and let him do what he does best.

He makes $6.5M a year. That's extremely reasonable for his production on offense. You can argue the length of contract if you'd like, but his skill set revolves around shooting and off-ball movement. These skills last forever. If he was a dribble penetration player, or someone that relied on athleticism, I'd understand how his skills might decline. Martin's a shooter, though. Shooters never lose their shot, as the saying goes.

That's Martin as a player. I'd like to see Martin the mentor be a hands on type of guy. Teaching LaVine and Wiggins how to be professionals first and foremost. Also, I'd like to see their off-ball movement get better because they see how Martin plays. I'm also sure that Martin could help the young guys learn ways to draw fouls, as this is also something K-Mart's done well his entire career.

I'd keep the guy. I think Flip would agree. We have a very nice balance of vets and youth, and Martin plays a role in that.

Great post. Its hilarious about how I always hear how Martin is a 1-way player and no team wants him and his contract but Atlanta signed Korver for 4 years 24 million. Bud turned down more money to sign for 3 years 15 million here. JJ Redick 4 years 27 million which is basically what Martin got. Mayo who is basically truely worthless got 3 years 24 million. Yeah Martin is grossly overpaid. Sure ok. Caron Butler is getting paid 5 MILLION a year the next 2 years. Yeah why he is getting that I have no freaking clue. Ben Gordon signed a similar slightly cheaper deal. But Martin who now has a 3 year just a hair over 21 million contract for a guy that can score 20ppg COASTING lol. Yeah who wants that...sure he is flawed so are a bunch of other guys making a bunch of money some that are reasonably worthwhile players. Its mind boggling I just don't get why people don't see Martin's value a little more realistically in relation to what is out there in the league.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't think people are complaining about Martin's scoring or saying he's grossly over paid. I think people are concerned about his overall effort and leadership. Here's what I've read recently:

From Flip Saunders interview: http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/277337171.html?page=3&c=y

Q You've said you'll demand more of a guy like Kevin Martin. In what ways?

A Well, a leadership role, but when you talk to anybody, everybody talks about his lack of defense. You've got to have the right mindset. I'm going to challenge him to have that defensive mindset. Is he ever going to be all-team defense? No, I'm not asking him to do that. But I am asking him to sacrifice the things he needs to do within a team concept.

From yesterday's Strib: http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/277690291.html?page=1&c=y

His decision to mentor his young teammates follows Taylor's unexpected phone call in which the owner essentially asked Martin to give him, at $7 million a season, more than he did a season ago.

Martin said he'll "leave our conversation to us" but did say Taylor talked about the team's new players and the two discussed how last season disintegrated and players' efforts "disrespected" coach Rick Adelman.


Now add in Martin's own admission of taking short cuts, coasting etc. and most can fill in the blanks.

[bleedspeed177 [enjin:6603232]]

I look at it as 7M a year for a solid starter is pretty good value. He is not perfect, but if we could trade Budinger/Brewer and Barea for someone as good I would do it in a heartbeat.

I think Martin/Young/Pek are signed to reasonable contracts.

[alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]]

ehh I always thought leadership is just a dumb buzzword. There's those who say if Love had better leadership, the team would of been better. But actually dig into that statement a bit. Take JJ for example, can you honestly say there was something that Love could of said or done to JJ to him so that he would of played better? Was he honestly bad because Love called him out one time? Leadership doesn't make other players around you put the ball in the hoop any easier.

As for Martin and coasting, I mean he's pretty much been the same player he's always been. There hasn't been any major dips that stand out and show that he was coasting. Guy hasn't been a good defender his whole career. But hey, not everyone can be a good defender, there's always going to be good ones and bad ones.

[mnhoops [enjin:11017401]]

I think Love could have called JJ out for launching stupid 3's everytime someone came to the scores table to sub him out.... but it's hard to do when he himself is taking defensive possessions off to complain to the officials and sulk about missing a 3 instead of getting back on defense. The team seemed to lack anyone that would or could hold anyone else responsible and I think that is where the "lack of leadership" gets brought up.


People are jumping on Martin's comments but to me that is coming from Flip taking charge as the leader until a player(s) step up and take that command. My guess is Martin made those comments as a reference to being able to coast through practices and stuff that is something Flip has already made clear wont be tolerated this year.

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I don't think it's reasonable to demand every player be the consummate/perfect professional. That's when you bring in the valuation of how much can you accept about a player be it attitude or off the court stuff versus production. At 7 per, I can live with Martin saying he's coasted for a few years. Scoring 18-20 a game while doing it efficiently with no defense is an acceptable level of coasting for me. I don't care if Martin isn't a leader. Being a veteran doesn't automatically make you a leader anyway. Not everybody has that ability so why force it on people if they don't have it or want to do it? If he just wants to score 18 a game and cash in then let him do it. He's over 30 so he's not a building block anyway. He's making the road to take his spot easier for anyone willing to play decent defense while not being a terrible offensive player. He's always been a secondary player being thrust into the number 1 role until he went to OKC. I think he's a good enough placeholder until the young players get good enough to take his spot which is the second best thing you can get from a vet when the leadership isn't there.

[TheGrey08]

I don't have a problem with Martin's comments. Heck, I find them refreshing! I was wondering what his attitude would be considering two of his reasons for coming here -- Love and Adelman -- are gone. But he seems to be embracing the new role of being a leader both on and off the court.

I really like the makeup of this team, and that includes Martin.

This is basically how I feel as well.

The disdain for K-Mart is a little ridiculous. He was an efficient 19 PPG scorer last year as the second option on offense, though one could argue Pekovic was the second option before going down with an injury. He's a consistently good three-point shooter and an elite free throw shooter. That's what his label his.

I'd also argue that he's a capable post scorer from the SG position. He's taller than most off guards and gets his shot off at will. Martin's also an underrated cutter and uses screens to get open as well as anyone in the league. In my opinion, he's a smart basketball player, but shouldn't be used for iso basketball. That was one of Adelman's biggest problems for me last year. Keep him off the ball and let him do what he does best.

He makes $6.5M a year. That's extremely reasonable for his production on offense. You can argue the length of contract if you'd like, but his skill set revolves around shooting and off-ball movement. These skills last forever. If he was a dribble penetration player, or someone that relied on athleticism, I'd understand how his skills might decline. Martin's a shooter, though. Shooters never lose their shot, as the saying goes.

That's Martin as a player. I'd like to see Martin the mentor be a hands on type of guy. Teaching LaVine and Wiggins how to be professionals first and foremost. Also, I'd like to see their off-ball movement get better because they see how Martin plays. I'm also sure that Martin could help the young guys learn ways to draw fouls, as this is also something K-Mart's done well his entire career.

I'd keep the guy. I think Flip would agree. We have a very nice balance of vets and youth, and Martin plays a role in that.

10/10