Bulls vs. Cavs

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60WinTim
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by 60WinTim »

TheSP wrote:Just think of the haul those two players will bring when they too demand a trade!! Keep this up and Minnesota could have two terrible pro Basketball teams!!

;-)

Naahhh! In Flip we trust!

The Wolves fall into terribleness began when Flip was given the boot. We were 40-42 last year with Flip back on board (same record he had in his first full season as Wolves' coach!). Flip will pull us out of our lottery doldrums and into the playoffs.
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Lipoli390
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Lipoli390 »

Camden wrote:Personally, I don't think Bennett's coming to Minnesota. I think he's getting moved for Thad Young. And if we do get Bennett, we better hope he changes his mentality from SF to PF or else he's not going to do anything special in the league.


Cam -- You may be right. But I'm still thinking that Bennett is coming to the Wolves. I agree completely that, if he does come here, he needs to change his focus from SF to PF.

If given a choice, I'd take Waiters over Bennett. But I'm actually pretty high on Bennett. If his mind is right and his breathing problems have been resolved through the surgery he had earlier this summer, then he could be a steal as part of a Wiggins package. He's a terrific talent. He's an amazing ball-handler for his size and has a broad skill set that includes a dribble-drive game and long-range shooting. He shot 37% from behind the arc in college. He exhibited a great cross-over in Summer League (better than anything I've seen from Wiggins). Keep in mind, he's still very young, had only one year in college and played with a really bad and poorly coached team last season.

So we shouldn't sleep on Bennett.
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

I have been trying to decide what PF I most want to see come our way in a Love deal, and I keep coming back to Bennett, even though I recognize he's probably the least ready to contribute right away. I've been watching video of Thad Young, and think he could be lethal in the PnR with Rubio. But his rebounding stats are substandard for a PF (and were even worse in college), and PF rebounding is critical since we may not get much defensive rebounding out of our SF position. TT helps immediately on the defensive boards, but has limited upside offensively. Bennett (and you guys are right...he's a power forward) had an awful rookie year, but legitimate excuses for his poor season are there, and if he can regain most of the form he showed at UNLV, he could be our PF for a long time. My dream deal is Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters and Miami's first for Love and something.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

"PF rebounding is critical since we may not get much defensive rebounding out of our SF position."

This is assuming Brewer's our SF? Wiggins is a good rebounder for a wing.

Thompson is adequate offensively, decent defensively and above average on the glass. I don't believe he's involved in the Love trade.

Bennett... I think everybody knows how I feel about him. Derrick Williams-ish on offense, overmatched on defense and an OK rebounder. Lot of people buying into his potential he'll likely never reach.

Young's a good tweener, capable of playing both SF and PF. Versatile offensive game. Posts up smaller defenders, takes bigger defenders off the dribble. Great in transition. Can guard multiple positions. Decent team defender. Undersized but you can't ignore his production and efficiency. Still just 26 years old. Would bring a veteran presence to a team already full of young players.

I think it's clear which PF I want. Give me Thaddeus.
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SameOldNudityDrew
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by SameOldNudityDrew »

Anybody else here think Wiggins projects as more of a 2 than a 3?
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longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

I think I see Wiggins as more of a 2 than a 3 and that's one of the reasons I worry about having a poor rebounder like Young as our PF. We don't know who will go in the eventual Love trade or in subsequent moves, but right now I see Brewer, Bud, or Muhammad as our starting SF, and none of them are very good defensive rebounders. With Young next to them, we arguably have the worst rebounding pair of starting forwards in the league...not a good situation. One can counter that Wiggins and Rubio are above average defensive rebounding guards, but you can't count on your guards to clean up the defensive boards.

I have to admit that I have not watched Young play much, although I do like his ability in the PnR, so I don't know why his rebounding numbers are so poor. Hard to believe this guy has only averaged 3.5 defensive rebounds a game for his career...geez, Dante and Hummel have better per 40 numbers. Even at Georgia Tech, he only averaged 4.9 rebounds a game, a ridiculously low number for a guy his size. Does anyone have any theories why his numbers are so bad, especially considering his athleticism and length. Everyone knows I am not a fan of Kevin Love as a person or teammate, but I do admire his elite rebounding, and attribute most of his success to pure effort. Does Young lack interest and effort in his rebounding?
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Anybody else here think Wiggins projects as more of a 2 than a 3?


No. His game is of a small forward's. In certain lineups he may play the 2, however. Keep in mind also that LaVine very well may be our SG of the future.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

LST, Rebounding is not always about athleticism and length. Hell, look at how much bigger and quicker Darko was than a lot of other Centers, yet he was always a pretty pathetic rebounder. Dennis Rodman was an undersized PF, yet consistently dominated on the boards through his tenaciousness and crafty positioning for missed shots.

I don't have any particular insight into Thad's lukewarm rebounding numbers other than it ain't going to change much at this point.

As for Wiggins, he can probably guard either wing, but I have a tough time seeing him play a 2 on offense if Flip is looking for someone to share some of the ball-handling duties and be able to run a smart pick and roll. I just don't think that's something he has ever had to do much. Then again, Flip may have no choice. He basically may need to play two natural 3's at the wing spots since we are so shallow at the 2. I think Shved is all but done as a Timberwolf and Martin might get shipped out. LaVine isn't ready to play big minutes, so that leaves us with platooning the Brewer/Shabazz/Budinger/Mbah Moute/Hummel/Wiggins group at the two wing positions.

As for his rebounding, I don't think his college numbers were that great (5.9 per game). He averaged 3.5 rebounds in 30 minutes per game during the summer league.
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Coolbreeze44
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Coolbreeze44 »

Let's just call Wiggins a wing at this point. One point I disagree with you on Q, is I see both Wiggins and Lavine getting a ton of minutes this year. I don't see why they would play behind Shabazz, Bud, Mbah and Hummel. They are the future, court time this year will be huge for them.
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Porckchop
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Re: Bulls vs. Cavs

Post by Porckchop »

SameOldDrew wrote:If you're talking about a player who can be a superstar, you have to talk about handling and playmaking. Yes, we have Rubio, but how many superstar wings out there are just straight line drivers and aren't really playmakers? A superstar, especially on the wing, can't depend on a passer to get him the ball, and you have to be able to trust running the offense through them down the stretch. If Wiggins was a 7' C like Dwight or even a 6'10" PF like Stoudemire, then yes, he can be a superstar as a finisher if he's got a good set-up man like Rubio. But on the wing? Offhand, I can't think of another wing who came into the league with Wiggins-level handles and playmaking and became a star. Some star wings have had the handles but not the playmaking, but they were also prolific, smooth scorers. And to truly be a star who makes the team better, you really need to have some playmaking in there.

I like that guys are thinking about how prospective players would fit with Rubio, but I think we shouldn't overstate the importance of that if you're claiming that Wiggins could be a star. If Wiggins is going to be a star, he'll be better than Rubio, and we should be asking how would Rubio fit with Wiggins, not the other way around. In terms of athleticism and how it would fit with Rubio, we already have Brewer and LaVine, and I see Wiggins athleticism (while eye-popping) a bit redundant there, especially given how good Brewer has been there for us. Plus, that's mostly important in transition. What about the half-court, which is a much larger percentage of the game?

If we're honest, what we really need around Rubio are shooters, because Ricky's such a horrible shooter.

Rubio's a great defender, a creative passer, and I love his tenacity, but Rubio isn't the player many here thought he was going to be. His particular strengths and weaknesses mean you want players who fit with him, but to me, we should be careful not to assume Rubio is necessarily the long-term cornerstone as we talk about building a post-Love team. People turned out to have been way too optimistic about Rubio, and we shouldn't hang on to that illusion just like we should be careful not to repeat it by assuming Wiggins will be the next superstar.

Again, let me reiterate, I think Wiggins will be a very good player. But I think he's got some key hurdles to get over if he will ever be the #1 option on a contending team, a top 10-15 kind of player in the league. He could get there. And I hope he does because he's so much fun to watch. But those are some key questions he'll need to address if he's going to make it.

Are we really goin to point to Brewer as evidence that having athletic players around Rubio doesnt help? Brewer is a terribly flawed player who only showed his athleticism while cherry picking. How many truely athletic/skilled players has Ricky played with? If u point to Derick Williams and Wes ur going off their college scouting reports. It never really translated to the NBA. How bout instead of having one "athletic" player and a bunch of plodders we surround Ricky with a bunch of athletes. I mean having Love , Pek, Brewer and Martin on the floor isnt proof positive that having athletes doesnt help Ricky. If u point to needing shooters , I see more of them than I do athletes in that lineup. Thats not even mentioning Bud, Cunningham and whatever other net touchers were on the squad last year.
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