longstrangetrip wrote:
Basically, I want my starting PF to do three things...score efficiently, rebound, and play solid defense. And advanced stats show Thad is substandard in all three areas. His TS% of .512 ranked him 55th among PF's last year, and his rebounding rate of 9.5 ranked him 69th. So in these critical areas, he ranks behind most of the league's backup PF's. And his defensive rating of 108 is not very good.
Why use last year as a measure of Thad Young as a player? He's a 7-year vet, but last year he was playing with D-Leaguers on a team actively trying to lose. His numbers in the stats you mention were much better in prior years when he was playing on a real team. And Defensive Rating is just a reflection of how bad the Sixers were at defense.
I agree, kms...when a guy has been in the league 7 years, we know what he is. Young was hurt to some extent by playing with a bad team last year (although it also allowed him to average more than 4 PPG more than his career average), but his career advanced numbers still put him near the bottom of the pack for PF's. Here are his career numbers:
What do you guys see in here that excites you? On a career basis, Young is below average on defense, and far below average in TS% and rebounding. Let's use him to unload some bad contracts, but let's be honest about what we're getting back.
How is it that Taj Gibson would be looked at as a starting caliber PF to some on this forum, but those same guys don't think too highly of Thad Young and think he's just another forward. That's what amuses me.
Camden wrote:How is it that Taj Gibson would be looked at as a starting caliber PF to some on this forum, but those same guys don't think too highly of Thad Young and think he's just another forward. That's what amuses me.
I think this conversation outlines well why the Sixers aren't going to get a lot for Thad and on the RealGM board a fair amount Sixers fans pretty much say the same things although they really like him. Who has almost 10 million in capspace (or expirings) to give up for a guy that's more of a fringe starter? He is a legit NBA player with some significant flaws not unlike Hawes and Turner who they traded last year for a modest return (2nd rounders expirings). Yeah he played on a bad team was their top scorer which I said last year was brutal and still is. Let's remember though that MCW is a passing PG and Evan Turner I am sure set him up some as well. Rubio will be better but its not like he had nobody finding him which is what some of these posts make it sound to me.
So why do we want him? Well he would give us an established solid player who can give you some good things. It seems like everything I read he is said to be a great teammate hard worker gets his points without having plays run for him etc. He gives up a little size and girth but on the other hand is a very good ball handler for a PF and other years took a. Huge percentage of his shots around the rim and converted them at a high rate. On defense he gives you a guy that gets steals and will give you a block here and there. He might be a guy that will be a worthwhile defender against those stretch or SFs like a Melo when they are play PF. In transition he looks to be a nice player how many PFs do you know that do a eurostep on the way to the hole? In additon he seems like a guy that would work well with Rubio. I'd just like to have someone more established than Bennett Deing and the other guys going into the season. I think Thad has just enough positives to make me intruiged with him. He isn't the answer but there isn't anyone reasonably out there that is.
Bennett compared to Thad? Its possible Bennett ends up being nearly as effective as Thad because while Thad is a legit solid rotation player the bar isn't that high. I'd rather have a legit rotation vet of some sort in front of Bennett in case he really does suck or isn't nearly ready to go which is very possible.
I'm with Q I think Wiggins starts with Martin and then likely Thad if they aquire him. Thad might work well with Pek on offense since he supposedly has the ability to work well without the ball. On defense he can give you some versatility. Since he can likely guard some SFs. He might be useful in a zone since he is a steals guy.
longstrangetrip wrote:Q, I agree with you that Young was overused last year, and that has a lot to do with his poor TS%, but he has never been a very efficient shooter. His career TS% is .539, which would have ranked him 40th among power forwards last year...not very good. And his rebounding has been consistently terrible his entire career, and was only slightly worse last year.
Frankly, his overuse on a bad team allowed him to score 18 points a game last year. more than 4 points more than his career average. I just want us to be honest about Young, because after 7 years in the league, we know what he is. He's an athletic guy who's going to score about 13 points a game inefficiently, rank toward the bottom in PF rebounding, and play slightly below average defense. I know that Bennett is a big risk because of his terrible rookie year, but I would be surprised if he can't improve on Young's career numbers.
I agree with Tim's comment above...we could very likely end up with both of them next season, which will give Flip a good chance to determine who deserves the most minutes. I'm willing to trust Flip with that decision.
LST, He's not a 35-minute-plus per game PF who will help anchor a playoff team, that I agree with. But he is certainly better than, say, Dante Cunningham and I think he can help give us a different look offensively. While his career TS% isn't great, it would have been 6th best on our team last year and it's around average by NBA standards. He also does a good job getting deflections, guarding the PnR, moving the ball, and generally playing low-mistake basketball when not asked to do too much.
Camden wrote:How is it that Taj Gibson would be looked at as a starting caliber PF to some on this forum, but those same guys don't think too highly of Thad Young and think he's just another forward. That's what amuses me.
Because Taj Gibson is a game-changer defensively.
I'd take Taj Gibson all day every day over Thad. He is a very good defensive PF that's much better on offense than people realize.
Thad buys us more time to find Love's actual replacement or develop him in Bennett. I think too many people are looking at it like Thad is gonna be our PF of the future and while he is 26, I think he is just the placeholder for a year while we find someone else. I'm fine with a year of Thad, but I'm not holding my breath that he'll help us win any significant amount of games and earn a significant, long-term deal moving forward. I like him as a guy we can possibly get to dump salary. We have to make them take 1 long-term deal though because I don't see a point in making the deal if we only dump expiring's for an expiring.
khans2k5 wrote:Thad buys us more time to find Love's actual replacement or develop him in Bennett. I think too many people are looking at it like Thad is gonna be our PF of the future and while he is 26, I think he is just the placeholder for a year while we find someone else. I'm fine with a year of Thad, but I'm not holding my breath that he'll help us win any significant amount of games and earn a significant, long-term deal moving forward. I like him as a guy we can possibly get to dump salary. We have to make them take 1 long-term deal though because I don't see a point in making the deal if we only dump expiring's for an expiring.
I agree completely, khans. It's not going to hurt us to have Thadeus for a year or two, and I think Cam is correct that he is considered a good teammate, but we need to get him with the right deal. I hope Flip thinks that also, but I have a funny feeling Flip might be overvaluing him.
longstrangetrip wrote:
Basically, I want my starting PF to do three things...score efficiently, rebound, and play solid defense. And advanced stats show Thad is substandard in all three areas. His TS% of .512 ranked him 55th among PF's last year, and his rebounding rate of 9.5 ranked him 69th. So in these critical areas, he ranks behind most of the league's backup PF's. And his defensive rating of 108 is not very good.
Why use last year as a measure of Thad Young as a player? He's a 7-year vet, but last year he was playing with D-Leaguers on a team actively trying to lose. His numbers in the stats you mention were much better in prior years when he was playing on a real team. And Defensive Rating is just a reflection of how bad the Sixers were at defense.
I agree, kms...when a guy has been in the league 7 years, we know what he is. Young was hurt to some extent by playing with a bad team last year (although it also allowed him to average more than 4 PPG more than his career average), but his career advanced numbers still put him near the bottom of the pack for PF's. Here are his career numbers:
What do you guys see in here that excites you? On a career basis, Young is below average on defense, and far below average in TS% and rebounding. Let's use him to unload some bad contracts, but let's be honest about what we're getting back.
I'd say he's a guy who you can plug into the starting lineup and he won't hurt you. There's not another PF on the roster and Anthony Bennett is coming off a season where he was unplayable. Young's per-36 and advanced shooting numbers are comparable to David West. He's only 26, and he'll allow us to clear bad contracts.
For all those reasons, I would like to pick up Young. You could make the argument that we should be bottoming out, but with Wiggins, LaVine, Bennett, GRIII, Shabazz, and Dieng...there's already a lot of young talent to work with moving forward.
If we are moving other expirings for him, I am completely onboard. If it requires a first rounder, absolutely not. I am tired of wasting picks on one year rentals, and then having to overpay because we don't want to look foolish for making the deal originally. I am also tired of getting guys that always have to play undersized because they are either too slow, unskilled or both, to play the position their size should dictate.
Young should be a SF, and was considered one coming out of college, but due to his poor perimeter shooting and handle, he has shifted to the 4. He is a couple inches shorter than Love and gets abused in the paint defensively.
