sjm34 wrote:Q, Deng posted about the same numbers as Waiters last year, and one guy is on his way up while the other is on his way down in their respective careers. I would still rather take Deng over Pek, but I think Waiters and AV make more sense salary and flexibility wise.
Why would we think we can suddenly land the wing players we need without using any assets, when we haven't been able to accomplish in ten years?
Maybe you want to block out the injury issues with Pek, but I know it is likely that a guy weighing 290 lbs having repetitive type injuries in his ankle will have more trouble moving forward, not less. Add to that the guy is making 12 mil a year for the next 4 seasons, and I see a disaster waiting to happen. Don't throw out the less minutes, less injuries theme, because Pek has already proven that to be false. Unless you plan on cutting him down to 15 minutes a night, and then I would ask why are we paying him 12 mil. Take into account that this team posted the same record regardless of whether Pek was playing or not, and it seems like a no brainer to me.
AV can EFFETIVELY play PF or C for our team, and more importantly is on an expiring deal. Waiters is still on his rookie deal, and should be more attractive to us in the case that Love decides to leave. I don't see how making miniscule improvements going into next season will help us keep Love.
Instead of improvement, I actually see this as a step back. I doubt Love would be high-fiving Flip after a move like this. I guess we just disagree on the effectiveness of the players involved. I just don't think Waiters and AV make us any better.
sjm34 wrote:Q, Deng posted about the same numbers as Waiters last year, and one guy is on his way up while the other is on his way down in their respective careers. I would still rather take Deng over Pek, but I think Waiters and AV make more sense salary and flexibility wise.
Why would we think we can suddenly land the wing players we need without using any assets, when we haven't been able to accomplish in ten years?
Maybe you want to block out the injury issues with Pek, but I know it is likely that a guy weighing 290 lbs having repetitive type injuries in his ankle will have more trouble moving forward, not less. Add to that the guy is making 12 mil a year for the next 4 seasons, and I see a disaster waiting to happen. Don't throw out the less minutes, less injuries theme, because Pek has already proven that to be false. Unless you plan on cutting him down to 15 minutes a night, and then I would ask why are we paying him 12 mil. Take into account that this team posted the same record regardless of whether Pek was playing or not, and it seems like a no brainer to me.
AV can EFFETIVELY play PF or C for our team, and more importantly is on an expiring deal. Waiters is still on his rookie deal, and should be more attractive to us in the case that Love decides to leave. I don't see how making miniscule improvements going into next season will help us keep Love.
Instead of improvement, I actually see this as a step back. I doubt Love would be high-fiving Flip after a move like this. I guess we just disagree on the effectiveness of the players involved. I just don't think Waiters and AV make us any better.
I don't think we take a step back next year at all after this move plus it sets us up with a 22-year old prospect trending upwards. Guy averaged 19 PPG (3.7 APG too) on 46% FG and 38% 3P post All-Star break. Would anyone be shocked if he had a breakout campaign next season?
Camden wrote:I don't think we take a step back next year at all after this move plus it sets us up with a 22-year old prospect trending upwards. Guy averaged 19 PPG (3.7 APG too) on 46% FG and 38% 3P post All-Star break. Would anyone be shocked if he had a breakout campaign next season?
Oh, I fully expect Waiters to have a break out season. Unless the Wolves trade for him. Then he'll flame out.
You should know that is how the Wolves operate! :)
I like waiters on the team because I believe he is a good fit with rubio on the backcourt.
One of the more effective lineups we have is one where rubio and barea plays together. This only happens when the matchup permits it but the rubio+barea back court has been a good combo since they started coming off the bench together on rubio's rookie season.
I believe waiters to be a lot like barea and although only 6'4, he does have the size and bulk to matchup with sg's on most nights. Rubio needs another ball handler/shot creator/playmaker with him who can take pressure off him to be the sole creator and waiters can be it. He greatly improved his 3pt shooting last season and he plays with a chip on his shoulder, something we need on this squad.
Im a big fan of pek but as others have pointed out already, his injury is a concern and the 48m for 4 years we owe him might be a hindrance to us down the road. Varejao is just as injury prone as pek but when healthy he is good. He is a rebounding machine, a good team and interior defender and an energy guy. Plus, his salray comes off the books after next season and i believe this gives him good value around trade deadline should we go that route. He would be someone dieng could learn from. Dieng/varejao/turiaf center combo gives us defense and rebounding at the center position no matter who we play.
A Rubio / Waiters starting back court is very appealing and complimentary. Varejao gives us a decent 3rd big to play behind Dieng / Love and his expiring 9 mil is a good trade deadline chip, or even better in helping create cap space to resign Love.
I have a feeling though any deal involving Waiters would require us to take on Jarret Jack's contract. Would you say yes if it was Pek, Barea and Shved for Waiters, Varejao and Jack?
KiwiMatt wrote:I like the idea of Pek for Waiters / Varejao.
A Rubio / Waiters starting back court is very appealing and complimentary. Varejao gives us a decent 3rd big to play behind Dieng / Love and his expiring 9 mil is a good trade deadline chip, or even better in helping create cap space to resign Love.
I have a feeling though any deal involving Waiters would require us to take on Jarret Jack's contract. Would you say yes if it was Pek, Barea and Shved for Waiters, Varejao and Jack?
I'd counter with Pek, Barea, Budinger and Shved for Waiters, Varejao, Jack and Gee (contract isn't guaranteed).
I would love a big man trio like that. Bigs that dont have plays run for or thru them focus their energy on defense, boards and the opportunistic buckets that result from them. I have full confidence that those guys combined would better Peks offensive output easily.
KiwiMatt wrote:I like the idea of Pek for Waiters / Varejao.
A Rubio / Waiters starting back court is very appealing and complimentary. Varejao gives us a decent 3rd big to play behind Dieng / Love and his expiring 9 mil is a good trade deadline chip, or even better in helping create cap space to resign Love.
I have a feeling though any deal involving Waiters would require us to take on Jarret Jack's contract. Would you say yes if it was Pek, Barea and Shved for Waiters, Varejao and Jack?
I'd counter with Pek, Barea, Budinger and Shved for Waiters, Varejao, Jack and Gee (contract isn't guaranteed).
I'm on board with a Pek package for a Waiters package and, if necessary, I'd be willing to take Jack as part of the bargain. Unfortunately, I don't think the Cavs would do any of these deals -- unless Q becomes the Cavs new GM. :).
lipoli390 wrote:I'm on board with a Pek package for a Waiters package and, if necessary, I'd be willing to take Jack as part of the bargain. Unfortunately, I don't think the Cavs would do any of these deals -- unless Q becomes the Cavs new GM. :).
The more i think of it, the more i think your right that cavs wont do it. Lets face it, varejao with a lesser salary and an expiring is as valuable as pek with his 4 years left at 12m per. Considering both their injury history and varejao being a better rebounder and defender. Pek is better offensively but factor in contract and cap flexibility as well as the reality that cavs isnt pek away from being good, then cavs wont trade for him and give up their top 2 best trade asset. I dont think cavs do that trade even if we take jack and sub martin in for bud.
