BIG trade talk about the Wolves that does NOT include Kevin Love.

[horatio81 [enjin:7751176]]

So they give up a ball-dominant pg who can score for a ball-dominant pg who can't score? And as a bonus, they get a lane-clogging center who can't spread the floor for Durant to go to work OR contribute on defense?

Pek and Rubio are tremendously overrated players on this board. They do a few things extremely well, which makes them legitimate nba rotation players, but they've each got holes the size of a yugo in their respective games.

We'd be crazy not to jump for that deal... which means they'd be crazy to offer it.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

So they give up a ball-dominant pg who can score for a ball-dominant pg who can't score? And as a bonus, they get a lane-clogging center who can't spread the floor for Durant to go to work OR contribute on defense?

Pek and Rubio are tremendously overrated players on this board. They do a few things extremely well, which makes them legitimate nba rotation players, but they've each got holes the size of a yugo in their respective games.

We'd be crazy not to jump for that deal... which means they'd be crazy to offer it.

And you tremendously underrate Rubio and Pekovic. Pek is a borderline All-Star in the West and Rubio has his own All-Star ceiling as he's already elite at running an offense, passing, rebounding, defending and forcing turnovers. Early 20s still and has shown plenty of glimpses of what he could develop into with a finishing touch around the basket. Pek's not a rotation player like you seem to believe. Rotation players don't average 18/9 in the NBA, while leading all NBA players in points in the paint (previous to injury) and being a force on the offensive glass.

I agree we should take the deal if it was offered, but that's because I believe Westbrook is a star already. In no way, shape or form is OKC getting a bad deal, though. Pek and Ibaka is about as perfect of a frontcourt pairing as you can get with one being a dominant low post scorer and the other is the best shot-blocker in basketball. Rubio's a playmaker, not a scorer. I can only wonder how many easy buckets he'd create for Durant/Lamb/Ibaka/Pek/Jackson.

This deal will likely never happen, but don't be ignorant in saying Rubio and Pek are just "legit NBA rotation players". Way to completely undersell their value.

[horatio81 [enjin:7751176]]

Pek is a "borderline all-star" only if you completely ignore one half of the floor - which just so happens to be the one half where centers make the biggest difference. People act like the disappearance of dedicated post players is some kind of accident rather than a natural evolution of the game. You don't need points from your center. There are great scorers at every position on the floor, and the most brutally efficient ones aren't Al Jefferson and Pek - they're wing players who go to the free throw line and hit threes. What you can't get from positions one through three is paint protection. Same as you can't get your viable, useful ball handling at center...

Rubio is the worst scorer in modern NBA history right now. That's not something you hand-wave as you count a few extra rebounds. That sort of liability literally warps the floor for your offense. The ball has one viable origin point because he can't play off of it without letting his defender clog the lane. When he's holding the ball, his inability to score removes all dread from the other four defenders - they aren't worrying about his penetration or shooting, they aren't considering a double team or shifting away from their own assignments. None of these are good things for a modern NBA offense. Today's game is predicated on multiple three point shooters, multiple ball-handlers, scoring PGs. Flying in the face of convention doesn't seem to be getting us very far, does it?

The only reason the Wolves aren't challenging for the very worst record in the league is Kevin Love. He is an other-worldly offensive talent at this point, consistently warping defensive schemes with his three point shooting even as he picks them apart with his passing. And the threat starts the moment he rebounds the ball, which is more often than just about anyone else on the floor. He might be the third or fourth best player in the NBA. Strange, every other top-3 player is on a top-four-seeded playoff contender...

Sorry, but I firmly believe our supporting cast is miles worse than most people on this board seem to believe, and the lack of wins is really bearing it out.

[mjs34]

Rubio is the worst scorer in modern NBA history right now. That's not something you hand-wave as you count a few extra rebounds. That sort of liability literally warps the floor for your offense. The ball has one viable origin point because he can't play off of it without letting his defender clog the lane. When he's holding the ball, his inability to score removes all dread from the other four defenders - they aren't worrying about his penetration or shooting, they aren't considering a double team or shifting away from their own assignments. None of these are good things for a modern NBA offense. Today's game is predicated on multiple three point shooters, multiple ball-handlers, scoring PGs. Flying in the face of convention doesn't seem to be getting us very far, does it?

You really need to check your facts or tune into a game rather than reading sensationalistic articles by the national media.

Rubio isn't even close to the worst. When you say scorer, I assume efficiency because why would you compare two guys if one jacks up twice as many shots. Rubio has a poor fg%. He is an inefficient scorer as well, but he is far from the worst. Here are a few that sit behind him this season. KG, Josh Smith, Jerryd Bayless, Trey Burke, Dante Cunningham, Rondo, Ridnour, Tyreke Evans, Raymond Felton. All of these guys have lower TS% numbers on the season. I will give Rondo a break because he is coming back from injury, and KG due to his age, but the rest of these guys are getting regular minutes and I can't think of one that brings anywhere close to the intangibles and other skills that Ricky does.

I watch Rubio drive by his man and then have to beat or pass around the big that has rolled to block his shot. I watch it happen repeatedly on any given night.

Try watching a game!

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Does anyone else feel like OKC would be more interested in a Pekovic/Budinger/Barea/1st(?) for Westbrook/Perkins? The more I think about it, the more I feel like they wouldn't want Rubio and have to pay him. Jackson's stepped in for Westbrook enough already where they could feel like he's already a worthy replacement if they dealt him. They've been looking for a wing shooter all year and now it sounds like they're after Caron Butler now that he got a buyout from MIL.

Pekovic gives them the low post scorer and rebounder they lack at the center position. Budinger gives them that shooting wing off the bench to pair up with Lamb in the second unit. Barea replaces Jackson as the bench PG and the "playoff success" surrounding Barea could seem valuable. JJ's also played very well against OKC in the past so they've seen enough of him to buy-in, I guess.

PG: Jackson/Barea
SG: Sefalosha/Lamb
SF: Durant/Budinger
PF: Ibaka/Jones
C: Pekovic/Adams

PG: Rubio/FA
SG: Westbrook/Martin
SF: Brewer/Muhammad
PF: Love/Cunningham
C: Perkins/Turiaf/Dieng (Maybe we draft a franchise center this summer?)

I keep thinking about a Westbrook trade and while I think Rubio makes the Thunder better, I don't see them wanting to pay him knowing they already have Jackson waiting. That's why Budinger would make a ton of sense for them. You can replace Bud with Brewer/Martin, but I don't see them wanting either of those guys.