Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Any And All Things T-Wolves Related
Post Reply
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

alexftbl8181 wrote:Also ironic that people want to get rid of Pek because of injury issues and would be fine with a guy like Turiaf, whose missed more games then pek this year

I can't speak for others on this board who support pursuing deals involving Pek, Alex, but I see Turiaf as a backup center, not a starter. Having said that, the nature of Turiaf's injuries is vastly different than Pek's, Turiaf's injuries are situational, like his broken arm resulting from a bad fall. Pek's injuries are structural...ankle problems, calf problems, etc...that are more likely to recur.

What we have learned this year is, despite the rawness of our backup centers, the Wolves' record is virtually the same whether Pek is playing or out injured...actually a little better when he is out. That tells me that the improvement in defense with our backups is at least equal to the offensive dropoff. Your point is valid that Pek uses his size and strength to establish position that allows him to get easy buckets. But sjm's point, that Ricky is able to spoon feed easy buckets to any center willing to move to the basket, is also valid. If evidence shows we are almost the same team with Pek or without, doesn't it make sense to see is we can use his $12 million per year to upgrade some of the real problems this team has? I'm not on board with the Deng discussion, because I think our focus needs to be on upgrading our starting SG first, which would immediately improve our bench by adding Kevin Martin's instant offense to it.

I'm eager to see how Dieng holds up in his BTBs against Dallas and Houston. They will be tough tests for him, because Dalembert and Howard will both have a significant size advantage over him. If Ronny were healthy, I would expect he would get significant minutes in these matchups, but unfortunately Gorgui is our only option at center. Baptism by fire the next two nights.
mjs34
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by mjs34 »

Pek is tied for 33rd in Reb rate among centers, so while he does well offensively that would suggest that his defensive rebounding is poor. Pek is 19th among centers in TS%. What we lose with Pek offensively is a guy that can get position with a high usage rate, but I think we gain it all back on the defensive end. I also still believe that if Pek was as valuable as some believe, he would be scoring for us in those clutch situations to close out close games.
User avatar
alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741]
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by alexftbl8181 [enjin:6648741] »

longstrangetrip wrote:
alexftbl8181 wrote:Also ironic that people want to get rid of Pek because of injury issues and would be fine with a guy like Turiaf, whose missed more games then pek this year

I can't speak for others on this board who support pursuing deals involving Pek, Alex, but I see Turiaf as a backup center, not a starter. Having said that, the nature of Turiaf's injuries is vastly different than Pek's, Turiaf's injuries are situational, like his broken arm resulting from a bad fall. Pek's injuries are structural...ankle problems, calf problems, etc...that are more likely to recur.

What we have learned this year is, despite the rawness of our backup centers, the Wolves' record is virtually the same whether Pek is playing or out injured...actually a little better when he is out. That tells me that the improvement in defense with our backups is at least equal to the offensive dropoff. Your point is valid that Pek uses his size and strength to establish position that allows him to get easy buckets. But sjm's point, that Ricky is able to spoon feed easy buckets to any center willing to move to the basket, is also valid. If evidence shows we are almost the same team with Pek or without, doesn't it make sense to see is we can use his $12 million per year to upgrade some of the real problems this team has? I'm not on board with the Deng discussion, because I think our focus needs to be on upgrading our starting SG first, which would immediately improve our bench by adding Kevin Martin's instant offense to it.

I'm eager to see how Dieng holds up in his BTBs against Dallas and Houston. They will be tough tests for him, because Dalembert and Howard will both have a significant size advantage over him. If Ronny were healthy, I would expect he would get significant minutes in these matchups, but unfortunately Gorgui is our only option at center. Baptism by fire the next two nights.


Heat are undefeated this year when Lebron doesn't play. I guess he isn't needed either
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Camden wrote:I'm wondering if some of you would actually throw Dieng into the fire, hope Turiaf stays healthy and then draft for a different position. That's really risky in my opinion.

That would be my strategy, cam. As I pointed out in another post, the Wolves have been a .500 team this year with Pek in the lineup and a .500 team with him hurt and replaced by Turiaf or Dieng. In contrast, in prior years when either Love or Rubio went down, team performance suffered a lot. This tells me that Pek can be, and frankly has been, replaced fairly easily, and his $12 million can be put to better use in pursuing an elite wing.
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

alexftbl8181 wrote:
longstrangetrip wrote:
alexftbl8181 wrote:Also ironic that people want to get rid of Pek because of injury issues and would be fine with a guy like Turiaf, whose missed more games then pek this year

I can't speak for others on this board who support pursuing deals involving Pek, Alex, but I see Turiaf as a backup center, not a starter. Having said that, the nature of Turiaf's injuries is vastly different than Pek's, Turiaf's injuries are situational, like his broken arm resulting from a bad fall. Pek's injuries are structural...ankle problems, calf problems, etc...that are more likely to recur.

What we have learned this year is, despite the rawness of our backup centers, the Wolves' record is virtually the same whether Pek is playing or out injured...actually a little better when he is out. That tells me that the improvement in defense with our backups is at least equal to the offensive dropoff. Your point is valid that Pek uses his size and strength to establish position that allows him to get easy buckets. But sjm's point, that Ricky is able to spoon feed easy buckets to any center willing to move to the basket, is also valid. If evidence shows we are almost the same team with Pek or without, doesn't it make sense to see is we can use his $12 million per year to upgrade some of the real problems this team has? I'm not on board with the Deng discussion, because I think our focus needs to be on upgrading our starting SG first, which would immediately improve our bench by adding Kevin Martin's instant offense to it.

I'm eager to see how Dieng holds up in his BTBs against Dallas and Houston. They will be tough tests for him, because Dalembert and Howard will both have a significant size advantage over him. If Ronny were healthy, I would expect he would get significant minutes in these matchups, but unfortunately Gorgui is our only option at center. Baptism by fire the next two nights.


Heat are undefeated this year when Lebron doesn't play. I guess he isn't needed either

I wouldn't be inclined to form any conclusions based on a sample size of three games. Pek's missed games are also not a big enough sample size to allow any solid conclusions, but 16 games certainly provides some trend evidence. The fact of the matter is the Wolves just haven't dropped off much, or really at all, in the 16 games Pek has missed.
User avatar
Camden [enjin:6601484]
Posts: 18065
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

longstrangetrip wrote:
Camden wrote:I'm wondering if some of you would actually throw Dieng into the fire, hope Turiaf stays healthy and then draft for a different position. That's really risky in my opinion.

That would be my strategy, cam. As I pointed out in another post, the Wolves have been a .500 team this year with Pek in the lineup and a .500 team with him hurt and replaced by Turiaf or Dieng. In contrast, in prior years when either Love or Rubio went down, team performance suffered a lot. This tells me that Pek can be, and frankly has been, replaced fairly easily, and his $12 million can be put to better use in pursuing an elite wing.


I wouldn't be upset at going with Dieng as a starter, but I do worry about his offensive ability. Goes up soft a lot and has trouble finishing from time to time. I'm really looking forward to seeing how he plays the rest of the season. Hopefully he shows me something different on offense. He did well the other night scoring a double-double with five blocks.

I'm confused a bit, LST. You're advocating for Pek's $12M to be used for an elite wing, but you're not on board with the Deng discussion? Deng's a two-time All-Star, durable, elite defender and not too shabby on offense either. That's exactly what kind of wing player we need.

If Dieng showed out the rest of the year and did make me think otherwise about his ability on offense, I'd revert back to my Stauskas (or best SG available) pick. Again, if Dieng showed me enough, I'd feel comfortable with: Rubio, Stauskas, Deng, Love, Dieng. And then Blake, Martin, Brewer, DC, Turiaf off the bench.
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

Yes, I agree that my position is not clear, cam. I really would prefer that the Wolves use Pek's $12 million on an elite SG, but I decided to leave it open by saying elite wing. The reason that I am not on board with the Deng talk is that I don't see a pressing need at SF...in fact I see a glut of possible options there on our current roster. While I appreciate the sentiment in this thread against "fit", I would also point out that the Wolves have gotten themselves in trouble in the past by building an unbalanced roster, and I don't see SF as our biggest problem area currently. Much of that belief is due to my enthusiasm about Muhammad, but I also see Brewer and Bud as competent SFs...or at least Bud will be when he has recovered from his knee issues.

My main goal is to get Martin out of our starting lineup. He doesn't seem to be as effective late in games when forced to play long minutes, but he is still an elite scorer that could give us 15 valuable points off the bench. Like you, I would like to see us draft a SG, and Nik Stauskas is currently my first choice. But I would prefer that our 2014 draft pick be allowed to develop slowly rather than being thrown into the starting lineup...hence the need to pick up an elite SG by trade or in free agency. And Pek seems to be the most valuable asset that could get us something valuable in return, and that I would be willing to give up
User avatar
longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]
Posts: 9432
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564] »

sjm34 wrote:Pek is tied for 33rd in Reb rate among centers, so while he does well offensively that would suggest that his defensive rebounding is poor. Pek is 19th among centers in TS%. What we lose with Pek offensively is a guy that can get position with a high usage rate, but I think we gain it all back on the defensive end. I also still believe that if Pek was as valuable as some believe, he would be scoring for us in those clutch situations to close out close games.

Excellent and helpful information, sjm...helps me understand why the Wolves' performance doesn't drop off when Pek is out of the lineup.
User avatar
Camden [enjin:6601484]
Posts: 18065
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

The guy that first comes to mind that fits your profile would be Eric Gordon, LST. While I won't trash that option just yet, I don't believe he's earned his contract at all thus far. If we're going to hate on Pek for injuries and defense, Gordon deserves the same if not more considering he makes more money.

And I wasn't saying that Gordon's even a guy you covet, personally. I just don't see a long list of SGs that would be available on teams that need a low post center.
User avatar
Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
Posts: 13844
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Cam's Off-Season Breakdown

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

It's a great debate and one I didn't expect us to have going back a couple of months. Keep in mind that Pek was absolutely on fire before his injury cropped up.

I think the jury is out on Dieng. I'm an unabashed fan, but to be realistic, I'm not sure he'll be ready to be a full-time starter as soon as next season. It usually takes big men 3 or 4 years to really get the nuances of defense. And he's even more raw offensively.

My preference would be a healthy Pekovic + a nice dose of Dieng off the bench next year, with even some stints playing next to Pekovic.
Post Reply