Playoff VORP

[Carlos Danger]

I'm a big VORP guy. After the first two games:

0.3 - Edwards
0.1 - Anderson
0.1 - Conley
Everyone else is zero except....
-0.2 - KAT. (yes, that's a negative sign in front of his number).

Do with that information what you want.

I took at peek at the former Wolves and they all zero VORP so far with Lakers except DLO is a negative (0.1).

Obviously all these numbers will swing wildly game to game due to small samples. But it's a nice summary of what I've seen so far.

[Q-is-here]

Ugly. Missing Jaden and Naz has forced us to pay NAW more minutes than he probably deserves and Nowell for scoring punch. It's just such a downgrade in terms of 2-way ability. NAW is unreliable offensively and Nowell is unreliable offensively AND defensively.

Naz isn't a great defender, but he was on a huge roll in terms of giving us scoring punch off the bench.

[FNG]

That matches my eye test too, Anthony. And those three (plus Gobert) are the only Wolves with positive net ratings too.

How soon we forget how great KAT was in the play in tournament though, and those were "bright lights" games too. My recollection was that he was our best player by far in those two games. What does VORP say for the entire postseason, Anthony? (I can't get it on basketballreference).

[Carlos Danger]

That matches my eye test too, Anthony. And those three (plus Gobert) are the only Wolves with positive net ratings too.

How soon we forget how great KAT was in the play in tournament though, and those were "bright lights" games too. My recollection was that he was our best player by far in those two games. What does VORP say for the entire postseason, Anthony? (I can't get it on basketballreference).

Great question. I've been unable to find any cumulative stats for play in games on basketball reference (or anywhere for that matter). It's like they never existed. If someone has a link to that info, I'd also be interested in seeing that.

[Carlos Danger]

Ugly. Missing Jaden and Naz has forced us to pay NAW more minutes than he probably deserves and Nowell for scoring punch. It's just such a downgrade in terms of 2-way ability. NAW is unreliable offensively and Nowell is unreliable offensively AND defensively.

Naz isn't a great defender, but he was on a huge roll in terms of giving us scoring punch off the bench.

We definitely miss Naz as that defacto sixth man - mainly because we don't have anyone else stepping up as a scorer. I was all for dealing Naz at the deadline because I assumed he'd be redundant once KAT came back. I think I was wrong about that. Still...I'm not sure we can afford to bring him back for what he's probably going to get on the open market. But I guess we'll see.

Regarding Nowell...I agree with your assessment. He's a flash guy, but I'm not sold on him as a reliable piece. Unless he's coming back on a very reasonable deal, I'm fine letting him walk. He was given a golden opportunity this season and he shit the bed.

Regarding NAW...I give him a little more leash because of what he's show defensively. But similar to Nowell (and Naz), it's going to be all about the Benjamins.

Would not be shocked if all three are let loose to find greener pastures and we backfill will some vet minimum guys.

[Q-is-here]

Ugly. Missing Jaden and Naz has forced us to pay NAW more minutes than he probably deserves and Nowell for scoring punch. It's just such a downgrade in terms of 2-way ability. NAW is unreliable offensively and Nowell is unreliable offensively AND defensively.

Naz isn't a great defender, but he was on a huge roll in terms of giving us scoring punch off the bench.

We definitely miss Naz as that defacto sixth man - mainly because we don't have anyone else stepping up as a scorer. I was all for dealing Naz at the deadline because I assumed he'd be redundant once KAT came back. I think I was wrong about that. Still...I'm not sure we can afford to bring him back for what he's probably going to get on the open market. But I guess we'll see.

Regarding Nowell...I agree with your assessment. He's a flash guy, but I'm not sold on him as a reliable piece. Unless he's coming back on a very reasonable deal, I'm fine letting him walk. He was given a golden opportunity this season and he shit the bed.

Regarding NAW...I give him a little more leash because of what he's show defensively. But similar to Nowell (and Naz), it's going to be all about the Benjamins.

Would not be shocked if all three are let loose to find greener pastures and we backfill will some vet minimum guys.

But if KAT is ultimately traded for a combination of expiring deals, a good sub-max vet, and some picks, then may be you sign Naz and he basically gives you 70% of what KAT gives you at a much lower price and without all the drama and self-delusion.

[BloopOracle]

Ant is leading all playoff players in PER.

[Carlos Danger]

But if KAT is ultimately traded for a combination of expiring deals, a good sub-max vet, and some picks, then may be you sign Naz and he basically gives you 70% of what KAT gives you at a much lower price and without all the drama and self-delusion.

Yep. That's a thought I've had as well. Ultimately it comes down to how the big shots feel Naz fits with the other core guys (Rudy, McDaniels and Edwards). I went to NBA.com and looked at line ups. There's such a limited amount of minutes, I'm not sure it means much, but here's what I found:

Gobert/Towns/Edwards/McDaniels/DLO were a +26 in 260 minutes. That's the line up TC envisioned.
Gobert/Towns/Edwards/MdCaniels/Conley were +10 in 75 minutes. That's his second vision.

Gobert/Reid/Edwards/McDaniels/DLO were (-13) in 17 minutes. That's original line up swapping Towns out for Naz
Gobert/Reid/Edwards/McDaniels/Conley were (-9) in 7 minutes. That's second vision swapping Towns out for Naz.

I wish there was more data. But I guess Reid must have mostly logged minutes with the second unit.

Two man line ups were similar:

Towns/Gobert were +9 in 529 minutes
Reid/Gobert were (-55) in 199 minutes

Reid/Edwards were (-34) in 807 minutes
Towns/Edwards were +2 in 746 minutes

My fear is that Naz might be another one of those guys like a Kevin Love, or DLO that their defense (or lack of) off sets their scoring. That's why I'm not fully committed to him unless the price is right. We need more two way players.

[Q-is-here]

But if KAT is ultimately traded for a combination of expiring deals, a good sub-max vet, and some picks, then may be you sign Naz and he basically gives you 70% of what KAT gives you at a much lower price and without all the drama and self-delusion.

Yep. That's a thought I've had as well. Ultimately it comes down to how the big shots feel Naz fits with the other core guys (Rudy, McDaniels and Edwards). I went to NBA.com and looked at line ups. There's such a limited amount of minutes, I'm not sure it means much, but here's what I found:

Gobert/Towns/Edwards/McDaniels/DLO were a +26 in 260 minutes. That's the line up TC envisioned.
Gobert/Towns/Edwards/MdCaniels/Conley were +10 in 75 minutes. That's his second vision.

Gobert/Reid/Edwards/McDaniels/DLO were (-13) in 17 minutes. That's original line up swapping Towns out for Naz
Gobert/Reid/Edwards/McDaniels/Conley were (-9) in 7 minutes. That's second vision swapping Towns out for Naz.

I wish there was more data. But I guess Reid must have mostly logged minutes with the second unit.

Two man line ups were similar:

Towns/Gobert were +9 in 529 minutes
Reid/Gobert were (-55) in 199 minutes

Reid/Edwards were (-34) in 807 minutes
Towns/Edwards were +2 in 746 minutes

My fear is that Naz might be another one of those guys like a Kevin Love, or DLO that their defense (or lack of) off sets their scoring. That's why I'm not fully committed to him unless the price is right. We need more two way players.

Understood and valid concerns.

Here's the difference though....no way is he taking a max salary slot and therefore he doesn't even need to necessarily start at PF. He's basically a 6th man scorer or a spot starter as needed.

I don't know....sucks we always find ourselves in a position where we want to trade away one of our better players, but so many guys just end up being a shitty fit here after X number of years (Love, Wiggins, KAT, DLO, etc.) I'm sure we'll all get sick and tired of Ant at some point too.

[Coolbreeze44]

Here are some stats that I heard on NBA radio today. DLO has played in 13 playoff games, and he has shot less than 50% from the field in every one of them. Further, since the 3 point line was brought into the league, 660 players have at least 200 field goal attempts in the playoffs. In terms of shooting percentage DLO ranks 656th. Only 4 players have performed worse in all that time.

Terminy and Johnson went on to say the Lakers could have acquired Conley instead of DLO, and what a bad mistake that was for them. See, I guess Rosas wasn't the head idiot after all.