https://m.startribune.com/minnesota-tim ... lmob=y&c=n
Keeping Reid should be the Wolves top priority this summer in my view. If it’s about building around Ant as I believe it is and as TC said it is a few weeks ago, then Naz is a guy you keep to develop with Any and Jaden. Apparently Ant and Jaden are lobbying Naz to stay and the three are pretty close.
The Wolves can and should beat the $12.2 million MLE that other teams will likely offer him. But other teams will be able to offer him a bigger role than he can have here playing behind KAT and Rudy. Just one more reason to trade one of those two.
Naz Reid
Re: Naz Reid
I was just coming here to post this, Lip! I had the same reaction as you did — if the team is now focused on building around Ant and Jaden, and want these fellas to sign extensions, and both want Naz to be part of the core going forward… how do the Wolves not resign Naz?
Re: Naz Reid
I think the front office decision on Naz will signal their intention with respect to KAT/Rudy. If they believe, as I do, that keeping a core of KAT/Rudy/Jaden/Ant together is both desirable and possible, there is no chance of retaining Naz without a 100% chance of exceeding the apron threshold in 24-25 (and I recognize about half of the posters here think we would exceed it anyway even without Naz). But if the intention is to trade one of our two max bigs, the front office will likely try to sign Naz.
I have stated my thoughts about Naz elsewhere, but since we now have a thread devoted to him, I'll restate them. I've liked Naz ever since watching him in summer league (Lip, you were there too). Although he came in overweight and out of shape, you could see that he was a skilled big man who could help this team. And I have enjoyed watching Naz progress as an offensive scorer. While only a slightly below average 3-point shooter (after 4 seasons we know what he is...a consistent 34% shooter beyond the arc), he made a quantum leap last year in his ability to get to the rim for easy 2's...his 65.3% on 2's was far and away the best of his career. Naz has proven to be a valuable scorer off the bench, and it's not unlikely his scoring will continue to improve.
But we also know his deficiencies. I don't believe he is a selfish player, but the ball just doesn't move when he is on the court. He will get his, but because he is not a skilled or willing passer, the offense overall does not flow well and is generally ineffective when he is on the court. He also is a below average defender and rebounder. You put all of these deficiencies together, and it's not difficult to understand why the Wolves are consistently outscored when Naz in on the court...he is a -6.5, -6.8, and -7.5 the past three seasons. I think there is agreement here that on/off stats can be misleading in a small sample size, but can tell a story when analyzed over a longer period of time. And Naz's consistently poor performance under this measure is both understandable and foolish to ignore.
I've grown to equate Naz to DLo. To me they have been two of the more likable players on the team, and both have shown an ability to score points in bunches from time to time...both have won games for us from time to time with their scoring. But also, both struggle with defense and making their teammates better, and tend to get outscored when on the court. I think we found that the DLo trade was addition by subtraction (although he admittedly did flourish pre-playoffs with the Lakers), and I suspect we might find the same with Naz's departure.
What do I think will happen? My sense is that management/ownership is committed to keeping the core together, and understand Naz is not affordable going forward if this is their goal. But his scoring improvement last year will attract some attention in free agency, and he may even find a team willing to pay him $15 million in a starting role. Naz seems to be a really good guy, so I hope this is the outcome for him. In any event, I'll be cheering for him.
I have stated my thoughts about Naz elsewhere, but since we now have a thread devoted to him, I'll restate them. I've liked Naz ever since watching him in summer league (Lip, you were there too). Although he came in overweight and out of shape, you could see that he was a skilled big man who could help this team. And I have enjoyed watching Naz progress as an offensive scorer. While only a slightly below average 3-point shooter (after 4 seasons we know what he is...a consistent 34% shooter beyond the arc), he made a quantum leap last year in his ability to get to the rim for easy 2's...his 65.3% on 2's was far and away the best of his career. Naz has proven to be a valuable scorer off the bench, and it's not unlikely his scoring will continue to improve.
But we also know his deficiencies. I don't believe he is a selfish player, but the ball just doesn't move when he is on the court. He will get his, but because he is not a skilled or willing passer, the offense overall does not flow well and is generally ineffective when he is on the court. He also is a below average defender and rebounder. You put all of these deficiencies together, and it's not difficult to understand why the Wolves are consistently outscored when Naz in on the court...he is a -6.5, -6.8, and -7.5 the past three seasons. I think there is agreement here that on/off stats can be misleading in a small sample size, but can tell a story when analyzed over a longer period of time. And Naz's consistently poor performance under this measure is both understandable and foolish to ignore.
I've grown to equate Naz to DLo. To me they have been two of the more likable players on the team, and both have shown an ability to score points in bunches from time to time...both have won games for us from time to time with their scoring. But also, both struggle with defense and making their teammates better, and tend to get outscored when on the court. I think we found that the DLo trade was addition by subtraction (although he admittedly did flourish pre-playoffs with the Lakers), and I suspect we might find the same with Naz's departure.
What do I think will happen? My sense is that management/ownership is committed to keeping the core together, and understand Naz is not affordable going forward if this is their goal. But his scoring improvement last year will attract some attention in free agency, and he may even find a team willing to pay him $15 million in a starting role. Naz seems to be a really good guy, so I hope this is the outcome for him. In any event, I'll be cheering for him.
Re: Naz Reid
FNG, I view Naz similarly to you and I prefer to sign and trade him if he can bring something of value back. I also like Naz and if he showed signs of developing into a good passer or defender, I'd be all for signing him. I like his development from an undrafted player to a rotation contributor but he still has major deficiencies as you point out and at his former contract, it was a no-brainer to keep him. However, if he's going to cost more than $10 million annually and prevent us from getting one of the better back-up guard options, I'd prefer to trade him if possible. The only thing I didn't agree with you on was your comment that DLO is likable as I didn't like his immature arrogant nature though his outspokenness sometimes gave me a good chuckle.
Re: Naz Reid
Some good points, KG. I guess I was more mixed on DLo than I expressed above. I didn't like him early in his career, but then felt he matured and became mostly a good teammate as he got older. But I do think he could have made the Gobert transition a little easier though, so he has some blame there.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Fri Jun 16, 2023 10:02 am FNG, I view Naz similarly to you and I prefer to sign and trade him if he can bring something of value back. I also like Naz and if he showed signs of developing into a good passer or defender, I'd be all for signing him. I like his development from an undrafted player to a rotation contributor but he still has major deficiencies as you point out and at his former contract, it was a no-brainer to keep him. However, if he's going to cost more than $10 million annually and prevent us from getting one of the better back-up guard options, I'd prefer to trade him if possible. The only thing I didn't agree with you on was your comment that DLO is likable as I didn't like his immature arrogant nature though his outspokenness sometimes gave me a good chuckle.
I hadn't thought about a sign and trade option for Naz, but it's certainly another path for TC to consider. And I agree...any significant improvement in his defense, passing and rebounding could make him a valuable commodity around the league. If we signed him for around $12-15 million and he showed improvement in the first half of the season, he could be an attractive trade candidate mid-season. Any long-term salary we brought back would put us in the same apron dilemma though.
All that considered, my preference is still to move on from Naz and try to win with the remaining core.
Re: Naz Reid
Here’s what Dane Moore posted on Twitter, after his latest pod with Britt:
“What does a keeping Naz and NAW path look like? As close to "run it back" as i can get, while kinda ignoring the 24-25 money problems
1. Hold Naz Reid and Nickel Alexander-Walker's free agent roster spots w/ two veteran minimum contracts about $2M each)
2. Let Jaylen Nowell walk - replaced with the 2nd pick on a rookie minimum
3. Waive Taurean Prince, waive Jordan McLaughlin, waive Nate Knight
- replaced with three veteran minimum contracts
4. Let Austin Rivers walk - but keep that 15th roster spot vacant (you're allowed to do that)
a. So at that point you are $9M over the cap, $19M below the tax.
i. Roster looks like this: Gobert, Towns, McDaniels, Edwards, Conley, Anderson, Moore Jr., Minott, 2nd rd. pick - and 5 vet minimum contracts (again, $19M below the tax)
5. Now, let's replace one of the vet minimums with Naz Reid at a $12M
contract
a. You're now $9M below the tax
6. Replace another one of those veteran minimums with Alexander-Walker at $6.5M
a. You're now $4.5M below the tax
1. So that's: Gobert, Towns, McDaniels, Edwards, Conley, Anderson, Moore Jr., Minott, Reid, Alexander-Walker, 2nd. Rd pick - and 3 vet minimum contracts ($4.5M below the tax)
7. You now have a little flexibility to sign a free agent. Replace one of those 3 veteran minimums with a $6M player using part of the MLE”
“What does a keeping Naz and NAW path look like? As close to "run it back" as i can get, while kinda ignoring the 24-25 money problems
1. Hold Naz Reid and Nickel Alexander-Walker's free agent roster spots w/ two veteran minimum contracts about $2M each)
2. Let Jaylen Nowell walk - replaced with the 2nd pick on a rookie minimum
3. Waive Taurean Prince, waive Jordan McLaughlin, waive Nate Knight
- replaced with three veteran minimum contracts
4. Let Austin Rivers walk - but keep that 15th roster spot vacant (you're allowed to do that)
a. So at that point you are $9M over the cap, $19M below the tax.
i. Roster looks like this: Gobert, Towns, McDaniels, Edwards, Conley, Anderson, Moore Jr., Minott, 2nd rd. pick - and 5 vet minimum contracts (again, $19M below the tax)
5. Now, let's replace one of the vet minimums with Naz Reid at a $12M
contract
a. You're now $9M below the tax
6. Replace another one of those veteran minimums with Alexander-Walker at $6.5M
a. You're now $4.5M below the tax
1. So that's: Gobert, Towns, McDaniels, Edwards, Conley, Anderson, Moore Jr., Minott, Reid, Alexander-Walker, 2nd. Rd pick - and 3 vet minimum contracts ($4.5M below the tax)
7. You now have a little flexibility to sign a free agent. Replace one of those 3 veteran minimums with a $6M player using part of the MLE”
Re: Naz Reid
Great breakdown, Sundog...very helpful. Did you notice that Dane's math is screwy though? After point 4, we are $19 million under the tax. He adds Naz at $12 million and says we are now $10 million under the tax...it's actually $7 million though. He then adds NAW at $6.5 million, and says we are now $4.5 million below the tax...but it's actually only $.5 million. I'll have to go back and listen to the podcast, but what Dane tweeted doesn't add up!
Re: Naz Reid
I was told there wouldn’t be any math…
Re: Naz Reid
If we’re building around Ant, as TC said we are, then we should not let Naz go. His age and trajectory fit with Ant and Jaden. Moreover, Ant and Jaden want him here.
Naz was clearly taking a big leap forward near the end of last season before he got hurt. The situation reminds me of when we let Billups go in favor of Brandon. Billups was a bit of a late bloomer who was showing signs of breaking out in the second of his two seasons with the Wolves. He was about the same age as KG. But Flip and McHale wanted to go with the veteran and therefore wouldn’t promise Billups an opportunity to start. So Billups went to Detroit and the rest is history. Imagine the success this franchise could have had for years with KG and Chauncey.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Naz has flaws as does every player in the league. But keep in mind that Naz hasn’t had the chance to settle into a role with consistent minutes much less a starting role osier with the team’s best players. TC has already said public he wants to keep Naz. He went on to say that Naz is the kind of player he wants in the organization and I agree. The team’s franchise player wants Naz to stay. I can’t stress enough how dumb it would be not to keep him.
Naz was clearly taking a big leap forward near the end of last season before he got hurt. The situation reminds me of when we let Billups go in favor of Brandon. Billups was a bit of a late bloomer who was showing signs of breaking out in the second of his two seasons with the Wolves. He was about the same age as KG. But Flip and McHale wanted to go with the veteran and therefore wouldn’t promise Billups an opportunity to start. So Billups went to Detroit and the rest is history. Imagine the success this franchise could have had for years with KG and Chauncey.
Those who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them. Naz has flaws as does every player in the league. But keep in mind that Naz hasn’t had the chance to settle into a role with consistent minutes much less a starting role osier with the team’s best players. TC has already said public he wants to keep Naz. He went on to say that Naz is the kind of player he wants in the organization and I agree. The team’s franchise player wants Naz to stay. I can’t stress enough how dumb it would be not to keep him.