Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:45 am
Looking back at my free agency post, I think I can take credit for the Troy Brown signing. But I don’t think I want credit. On reflection, I think I overstated his potential as a successor to Conley at PG. As I’ve been watching video of him, he looks far more like a catch-and-shoot SF than a PG.
I’ll note that the Wolves ended up with three of my guys - NAW, Shake and Troy Brown. They weren’t my three favorites, but they were all on my list. Just goes to show you that if your list is long enough, you’re well positioned to claim credit.
Lip ok you can drive the Troy Brown Jr FA Bus while I sit in the back eating pizza and drinking root beer. Ok fine the Troy Brown Jr “bus” is probably a 20+ year old minivan with an oil leak and at least one of the sliding doors that jams 55% of the time. Lol
I remember looking him up last year when the Lakers signed him for the vet min and realized he wasn’t that ball handling guy I thought he was based on the scouting reports you posted. Still maybe there is a bit of that in him. Most people that don’t know Prince’s game also don’t know he actually can handle the ball some and make some passes. Prince can get some buckets sometimes too. I spent a few minutes to read a few message board threads from the last couple years about Brown and he sounds like a solid player for a cheap contract and if that the expectation then people won’t be disappointed. Of course Brown is still young enough if you want to you can reasonably have a sliver of hope there is a little more.
To be honest I think Brown might be more of a vet min guy than what he got but maybe we paid a bit more to have that 2nd year team option. If Brown ends up being a solid rotation player which isn’t that far off what he was last year with the Lakers then that option could look really smart as opposed to a 1 year deal. To me the thing I like about Brown is that he did some good things the last couple years is still young and fairly cheap. I think the key for Brown is if he is actually a solid defender. Not amazing but solid. If you get that and he is somewhat of a threat from 3 then that’s a pretty worthwhile player. These are the types of signings I’ve been wanting the Wolves to make for years.
Nooooo! I love the Shake signing, but to Q's point in another thread, I see him more as a natural SG than PG. As you know, I'm a big fan of assist to turnover ratios when it comes to PGs, and here are JMac's and Shake's per 36 career numbers.
JMac: 9.8/2.3
Shake: 6.4/2.7
Not to mention that invariably we either increase our lead or narrow the gap when JMac is out there. If he's still hurt like the end of last year, then we have to turn to another option to back up Conley. But assuming good health, here's my rotation:
FNG - I’m glad you’re a regular contributor to this board. Among other major contributions you make, you serve as JMac’s champion and truth-teller. And I agree with you on JMac. I don’t think we can judge him based on his performances last season after his injury. It was clear he wasn’t fully recovered. The numbers that you provided speak for themselves. And there’s a reason TC is sticking with him. While the Gobert trade was colossally stupid, TC continues to impress me with his eye for young talent. He obviously sees something he likes in JMac.
I see the Wolves rotation next season exactly as you do - until the big upcoming KAT trade. . It will be interesting to see the extent to which Minott, Moore and/or Brown can break into the rotation at some point. I don’t see Miller having much chance of cracking the rotation. His game is still way too raw to contribute so I think he’ll be spending about all his time in the G-League.
My one tweak to your rotation is that I see Naz getting significant minutes at PF alongside both Rudy and KAT. We saw that late last season and it went well.
Jmac needs to hit open shots to play. He shot 19% from 3 the first 60 games last year then caught fire the last 20 games that is why we remember him fondly. He then this season shot 30% from 3 and 44% of those 3s he shot were unguarded.
He is a fine 3rd string Pg because he doesn’t turn the ball over but if he can’t make his open 3s he is unplayable
Yeah, JMac's poor 3-point shooting has been a big drawback. But to Lip's point, he demonstrated in 4 college years that he was a far above average 3-point shooter. It's his biggest weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made 35% this year. And with his ability to facilitate combined with his pesky, smart defense, that would make him a very good back up PG. We'll have to see.
I would put money on JMAc having a better 3-point percentage than Scoot Henderson this season!
FNG - I’m glad you’re a regular contributor to this board. Among other major contributions you make, you serve as JMac’s champion and truth-teller. And I agree with you on JMac. I don’t think we can judge him based on his performances last season after his injury. It was clear he wasn’t fully recovered. The numbers that you provided speak for themselves. And there’s a reason TC is sticking with him. While the Gobert trade was colossally stupid, TC continues to impress me with his eye for young talent. He obviously sees something he likes in JMac.
I see the Wolves rotation next season exactly as you do - until the big upcoming KAT trade. . It will be interesting to see the extent to which Minott, Moore and/or Brown can break into the rotation at some point. I don’t see Miller having much chance of cracking the rotation. His game is still way too raw to contribute so I think he’ll be spending about all his time in the G-League.
My one tweak to your rotation is that I see Naz getting significant minutes at PF alongside both Rudy and KAT. We saw that late last season and it went well.
Jmac needs to hit open shots to play. He shot 19% from 3 the first 60 games last year then caught fire the last 20 games that is why we remember him fondly. He then this season shot 30% from 3 and 44% of those 3s he shot were unguarded.
He is a fine 3rd string Pg because he doesn’t turn the ball over but if he can’t make his open 3s he is unplayable
Yeah, JMac's poor 3-point shooting has been a big drawback. But to Lip's point, he demonstrated in 4 college years that he was a far above average 3-point shooter. It's his biggest weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made 35% this year. And with his ability to facilitate combined with his pesky, smart defense, that would make him a very good back up PG. We'll have to see.
I would put money on JMAc having a better 3-point percentage than Scoot Henderson this season!
From what I saw last season there were times that Finch played McLaughlin based on matchups that favored him in terms of size. I think there will be games he doesn’t play and then games where Finch plays him. He is also a guy that plays the way Finch wants to so if guys aren’t doing what they are supposed to he may just insert McLaughlin to send a message. They didn’t sign Troy Brown Jr to a 2 year deal for almost 4 million this year to just sit on the bench. McLaughlin is a nice player to have as depth and if he stays healthy he will probably help out here and there especially assuming there will be a need to fill in minutes when there are injuries. I’m glad he is back.
It would be nice if he could make his threes but I’m mostly concerned if/when he plays if he can do his thing of smart play take what is given and set up his teammates. It is worth remembering that he has some chemistry with Naz. There is a chance McLaughlin bounces back and becomes the sort of valuable backup PG many of us envisioned him just a few months ago. FNG feels really strongly about it. I’m just glad there are a few options. Hopefully none of them go south like Nowell did last year…
Jmac needs to hit open shots to play. He shot 19% from 3 the first 60 games last year then caught fire the last 20 games that is why we remember him fondly. He then this season shot 30% from 3 and 44% of those 3s he shot were unguarded.
He is a fine 3rd string Pg because he doesn’t turn the ball over but if he can’t make his open 3s he is unplayable
Yeah, JMac's poor 3-point shooting has been a big drawback. But to Lip's point, he demonstrated in 4 college years that he was a far above average 3-point shooter. It's his biggest weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made 35% this year. And with his ability to facilitate combined with his pesky, smart defense, that would make him a very good back up PG. We'll have to see.
I would put money on JMAc having a better 3-point percentage than Scoot Henderson this season!
From what I saw last season there were times that Finch played McLaughlin based on matchups that favored him in terms of size. I think there will be games he doesn’t play and then games where Finch plays him. He is also a guy that plays the way Finch wants to so if guys aren’t doing what they are supposed to he may just insert McLaughlin to send a message. They didn’t sign Troy Brown Jr to a 2 year deal for almost 4 million this year to just sit on the bench. McLaughlin is a nice player to have as depth and if he stays healthy he will probably help out here and there especially assuming there will be a need to fill in minutes when there are injuries. I’m glad he is back.
It would be nice if he could make his threes but I’m mostly concerned if/when he plays if he can do his thing of smart play take what is given and set up his teammates. It is worth remembering that he has some chemistry with Naz. There is a chance McLaughlin bounces back and becomes the sort of valuable backup PG many of us envisioned him just a few months ago. FNG feels really strongly about it. I’m just glad there are a few options. Hopefully none of them go south like Nowell did last year…
Good post, Monster. As you noted, JMac plays the way Finch likes and it’s likely Finch will look to him more or less often depending on matchups. If JMac develops consistency shooting the ball (i.e., he develops into a reliable 35-37% 3-point shooter, then he’ll likely solidify himself in the rotation as Conley’s primary backup.
As for Troy Brown, note that his contract is only one year with a team option on the second year. I think the Wolves signed him to take a look at. I don’t think he was signed with any expectations. I think NAW and Milton were the guys who were signed with expectations. NAW’s contract is a true two-year deal. I think he’s the guy the Wolves are really high on. There’s a reason they wanted him in the DLO deal and they made it clear re-signing him was priority. Turns out he’s the only one of the three agents signed by the Wolves who doesn’t have a team option on the second year.
Yeah, JMac's poor 3-point shooting has been a big drawback. But to Lip's point, he demonstrated in 4 college years that he was a far above average 3-point shooter. It's his biggest weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made 35% this year. And with his ability to facilitate combined with his pesky, smart defense, that would make him a very good back up PG. We'll have to see.
I would put money on JMAc having a better 3-point percentage than Scoot Henderson this season!
From what I saw last season there were times that Finch played McLaughlin based on matchups that favored him in terms of size. I think there will be games he doesn’t play and then games where Finch plays him. He is also a guy that plays the way Finch wants to so if guys aren’t doing what they are supposed to he may just insert McLaughlin to send a message. They didn’t sign Troy Brown Jr to a 2 year deal for almost 4 million this year to just sit on the bench. McLaughlin is a nice player to have as depth and if he stays healthy he will probably help out here and there especially assuming there will be a need to fill in minutes when there are injuries. I’m glad he is back.
It would be nice if he could make his threes but I’m mostly concerned if/when he plays if he can do his thing of smart play take what is given and set up his teammates. It is worth remembering that he has some chemistry with Naz. There is a chance McLaughlin bounces back and becomes the sort of valuable backup PG many of us envisioned him just a few months ago. FNG feels really strongly about it. I’m just glad there are a few options. Hopefully none of them go south like Nowell did last year…
Good post, Monster. As you noted, JMac plays the way Finch likes and it’s likely Finch will look to him more or less often depending on matchups. If JMac develops consistency shooting the ball (i.e., he develops into a reliable 35-37% 3-point shooter, then he’ll likely solidify himself in the rotation as Conley’s primary backup.
As for Troy Brown, note that his contract is only one year with a team option on the second year. I think the Wolves signed him to take a look at. I don’t think he was signed with any expectations. I think NAW and Milton were the guys who were signed with expectations. NAW’s contract is a true two-year deal. I think he’s the guy the Wolves are really high on. There’s a reason they wanted him in the DLO deal and they made it clear re-signing him was priority. Turns out he’s the only one of the three agents signed by the Wolves who doesn’t have a team option on the second year.
If they had no expectations for Troy Brown Jr they must have very little for Shake who got 1 million more a year than Brown and a team option for the 2nd year as well. Lol
NAW is likely the best defender of the 3 (maybe by a lot if last season is for real) and the one that takes 3’s at a higher volume.
Shake has a certain amount of upside as well because he was often behind a number of guards in Philly and performed pretty well as a starter not just last year but other seasons as well although in smaller amount of games.
I'm on the fence with the Troy Brown Jr signing. Would have preferred to make a play for Jaden's brother Jalen McDaniels who ended up signing for the Raptors on a similar 2 years 9.3 million contract. Would have given us a bit more size to replace Prince as more of a PF than a wing.
Troy played 76 games last season for the Lakers and started 45 of them and shot 38% from 3 pt. Give us a bit of depth at the wing position which is always a good thing.
The good thing, however, is the 2nd year team option. If Troy plays well we can pick up his 2nd year. If he doesn't then we can let him go.
KiwiMatt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:37 pm
I'm on the fence with the Troy Brown Jr signing. Would have preferred to make a play for Jaden's brother Jalen McDaniels who ended up signing for the Raptors on a similar 2 years 9.3 million contract. Would have given us a bit more size to replace Prince as more of a PF than a wing.
Troy played 76 games last season for the Lakers and started 45 of them and shot 38% from 3 pt. Give us a bit of depth at the wing position which is always a good thing.
The good thing, however, is the 2nd year team option. If Troy plays well we can pick up his 2nd year. If he doesn't then we can let him go.
I was intrigued by the possibility of signing Jaden’s brother - perhaps as added incentive for Jaden to re-sign for a little less. But I think the Wolves made the right decision signing Troy. I like his positional versatility, especially his ability to play PG.
KiwiMatt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:37 pm
I'm on the fence with the Troy Brown Jr signing. Would have preferred to make a play for Jaden's brother Jalen McDaniels who ended up signing for the Raptors on a similar 2 years 9.3 million contract. Would have given us a bit more size to replace Prince as more of a PF than a wing.
Troy played 76 games last season for the Lakers and started 45 of them and shot 38% from 3 pt. Give us a bit of depth at the wing position which is always a good thing.
The good thing, however, is the 2nd year team option. If Troy plays well we can pick up his 2nd year. If he doesn't then we can let him go.
I was intrigued by the possibility of signing Jaden’s brother - perhaps as added incentive for Jaden to re-sign for a little less. But I think the Wolves made the right decision signing Troy. I like his positional versatility, especially his ability to play PG.
I like Jalen also but interestingly he and brown over their careers are about the same in the rebounding dept despite Brown being less lengthy. Jalen got a little more money and both years of his deal are guaranteed. Meanwhile the Sixers gave up assets last season to bring him in and couldn’t resign him because of the Harden situation.
Lip the other thing to consider is that having Brown and Shake on team option deals could make them more valuable in a trade this season. I’m not expecting that to happen but you never know what opportunities could be available for the Wolves. The other possibility if they play well enough they could become assets next offseason where teams are actually willing to give up something minor to get them. I’d guess if say Prince was making like 4 million instead of 7.5 million he may have been traded…of course I also think he wouldn’t have been let go by the Wolves at that price but…yeah.
KiwiMatt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2023 4:37 pm
I'm on the fence with the Troy Brown Jr signing. Would have preferred to make a play for Jaden's brother Jalen McDaniels who ended up signing for the Raptors on a similar 2 years 9.3 million contract. Would have given us a bit more size to replace Prince as more of a PF than a wing.
Troy played 76 games last season for the Lakers and started 45 of them and shot 38% from 3 pt. Give us a bit of depth at the wing position which is always a good thing.
The good thing, however, is the 2nd year team option. If Troy plays well we can pick up his 2nd year. If he doesn't then we can let him go.
I was intrigued by the possibility of signing Jaden’s brother - perhaps as added incentive for Jaden to re-sign for a little less. But I think the Wolves made the right decision signing Troy. I like his positional versatility, especially his ability to play PG.
I like Jalen also but interestingly he and brown over their careers are about the same in the rebounding dept despite Brown being less lengthy. Jalen got a little more money and both years of his deal are guaranteed. Meanwhile the Sixers gave up assets last season to bring him in and couldn’t resign him because of the Harden situation.
Lip the other thing to consider is that having Brown and Shake on team option deals could make them more valuable in a trade this season. I’m not expecting that to happen but you never know what opportunities could be available for the Wolves. The other possibility if they play well enough they could become assets next offseason where teams are actually willing to give up something minor to get them. I’d guess if say Prince was making like 4 million instead of 7.5 million he may have been traded…of course I also think he wouldn’t have been let go by the Wolves at that price but…yeah.
Monster - Great point about the trade value the team option could potentially provide at the trade deadline or next summer. I think TC did a really nice job with the players he brought in this summer and the contracts he’s handed out. Maybe he’ll get a home run or extra base it on all of them or perhaps he won’t even get on base with any of them. More likely at least one of the players acquired this summer will turn out to be really good either next season or thereafter. You’ll never hit the ball if you don’t swing and I think TC took some nice cuts at the ball this summer. We won’t know whether he made contract until this time next year or, in the case of Miller and Clark, until maybe two years from now.
But I don’t think I want credit. On reflection, I think I overstated his potential as a successor to Conley at PG. As I’ve been watching video of him, he looks far more like a catch-and-shoot SF than a PG.
