Alternative Wolves Universe

[Lipoli390]

Just for fun, imagine an alternative Wolves universe in which TC did not make the Gorbert trade last summer. Assume that, instead, he decided to bring the team back as it was with the addition of Anderson so he could study the team up close before making any major personnel decisions. What would your have done this summer so far in the draft and free agency in that alternative universe?

Here are my thoughts:

As for the draft, it’s hard to guess what the Wolves record would have been in my alternative universe. I’ll just assume we would have won the same number of games (42) based on the improvement of Ant and Jaden along with the acquisition of Anderson and the surprisingly quick development of Kessler. That means the Wolves would have had the 16th pick in this year’s draft. I would have drafted Keynote George or Brandin Podziemski. I’d lean towards Podziemski because of his three-point shooting. We probably could have traded down a couple slots to get him while picking up another 2nd-round pick. I also would have made the deal TC made to get Leonard Miller at #33. I would have traded our #53 pick for a future 2nd rounder.

Regarding free agency, I definitely would have re-signed Naz and NAW. And I probably would have signed Shake and Troy Brown too as younger players with some upside. I probably would have let Beasley walk.

Regarding trades, I would have explored trading KAT for Scoot and Simons or Nurkic. Not sure I would have pulled the trigger though. I would also have explored trades involving Vando and Prince, but I haven’t come up with a scenarios.

So I’ll be watching Podziemski and Kessler along with our core guys next season to get a flavor for how the Wolves might have done in my alternative universe. Hopefully, the real Wolves universe will be more interesting and rewarding.

[thedoper]

I think we would have been a lottery team and the wagons would have started to circle for the Wolves to break it up again. No way rookie Kessler as good as he was makes us a playoff team.

[FNG]

I'm with Doper on this one, Lip. A starting lineup of Kessler, SloMo, Jaden, Ant and DLo with KAT and JMac missing most of the season would have won about 38 games max, putting us out of the playoffs. The good news is we would have had a pick around 10 (assuming we didn't move up in the lottery) and after another failed season by Dlo, would likely have chosen Cason Wallace with our pick. I'm not very high on Wallace and don't think he is NBA ready. And without the Conley/Gobert synergy, it's unlikely TC would have made the same deal to move DLo. So he would have been stuck with the dilemma of either going with Wallace as starting PG, or bringing DLo back. And frankly I wouldn't be very excited right now about "running it back" with a starting lineup of Kessler/KAT/Jaden/Ant/Dlo.

I'm not saying TC didn't overpay for Rudy, although frankly I'm not losing much sleep over losing the players we did (I like what Kessler brought last season, but I don't envision a high ceiling for him) plus a last 20s draft pick every other year. I like the defensive dominance we showed when Rudy was on the court, and I'm a lot more excited about the future than I would have been had TC not made the deal. We don't know what moves TC would have made in free agency, but I suspect Lore/ARod wouldn't have been willing to go into the luxury tax with a starting lineup that included Kessler and DLo.

Just my thoughts. Fun exercise though, especially for those who like Kessler better than I do.

[Sundog]

Yeah… I guess I have a different definition of “fun”

[Q-is-here]

I'm with Doper on this one, Lip. A starting lineup of Kessler, SloMo, Jaden, Ant and DLo with KAT and JMac missing most of the season would have won about 38 games max, putting us out of the playoffs. The good news is we would have had a pick around 10 (assuming we didn't move up in the lottery) and after another failed season by Dlo, would likely have chosen Cason Wallace with our pick. I'm not very high on Wallace and don't think he is NBA ready. And without the Conley/Gobert synergy, it's unlikely TC would have made the same deal to move DLo. So he would have been stuck with the dilemma of either going with Wallace as starting PG, or bringing DLo back. And frankly I wouldn't be very excited right now about "running it back" with a starting lineup of Kessler/KAT/Jaden/Ant/Dlo.

I'm not saying TC didn't overpay for Rudy, although frankly I'm not losing much sleep over losing the players we did (I like what Kessler brought last season, but I don't envision a high ceiling for him) plus a last 20s draft pick every other year. I like the defensive dominance we showed when Rudy was on the court, and I'm a lot more excited about the future than I would have been had TC not made the deal. We don't know what moves TC would have made in free agency, but I suspect Lore/ARod wouldn't have been willing to go into the luxury tax with a starting lineup that included Kessler and DLo.

Just my thoughts. Fun exercise though, especially for those who like Kessler better than I do.

It is interesting how Vando and Beasley sort of fell off last season. I know they were part of the Lakers squad (along with DLO in a separate trade!) that made a playoff run, but Beasley mostly sat on the bench during that run and Vando's weaknesses became too much to overcome as the competition got tougher and he eventually became nothing more than a token starter for them.

Vando is a great example of a guy that can help you "eat up innings" in the regular season, but then come playoff time, he is more of a liability. So there is still value there, but it kind of wanes once you get into post-season play.

[kekgeek]

Obviously we overpaid for Rudy but this offseason sort of proves why Connelly didn’t want to run it back.

Pat Bev got the minimum, Beasley got the minimum, Vando got some playoff DNP-coaches decisions, bolmaro is out of the league.

Wolves could have kept Dlo and had max cap space this offseason but besides FVF no big name moved teams (I think we all agree that FVF is not worth that money) the big named that has moved this summer via trade is Beal and he wouldn’t make a ton of sense roster, lillard only wants to go to Miami, I think we could of been in on Siakam or PG13 but are either a massive upgrade on Rudy (maybe the are).


Or they could make the same Dlo trade and been in a similar spot for FA this offseason but would have not had to worry about the tax but we would have not been super under the cap space.

Obviously Kessler was the miss here but let’s see how he does in year 2. He did anchor a bad defense this year (not all his fault) and Vando would not really fit with Slow Mo, Kessler lineups.

I think the wolves would be in a similar ish what do we do now situation.

I think all these are true
1) wolves overpaid for Rudy
2) Rudy does not suck
3) Wolves probably wasted their draft capital on the wrong guy
4) the wolves would still need to probably make a big trade if they did not do the Rudy trade.

And at the end of the day none of this really matters if Ant and/or Jaden reach their peak

[Monster]

I'm with Doper on this one, Lip. A starting lineup of Kessler, SloMo, Jaden, Ant and DLo with KAT and JMac missing most of the season would have won about 38 games max, putting us out of the playoffs. The good news is we would have had a pick around 10 (assuming we didn't move up in the lottery) and after another failed season by Dlo, would likely have chosen Cason Wallace with our pick. I'm not very high on Wallace and don't think he is NBA ready. And without the Conley/Gobert synergy, it's unlikely TC would have made the same deal to move DLo. So he would have been stuck with the dilemma of either going with Wallace as starting PG, or bringing DLo back. And frankly I wouldn't be very excited right now about "running it back" with a starting lineup of Kessler/KAT/Jaden/Ant/Dlo.

I'm not saying TC didn't overpay for Rudy, although frankly I'm not losing much sleep over losing the players we did (I like what Kessler brought last season, but I don't envision a high ceiling for him) plus a last 20s draft pick every other year. I like the defensive dominance we showed when Rudy was on the court, and I'm a lot more excited about the future than I would have been had TC not made the deal. We don't know what moves TC would have made in free agency, but I suspect Lore/ARod wouldn't have been willing to go into the luxury tax with a starting lineup that included Kessler and DLo.

Just my thoughts. Fun exercise though, especially for those who like Kessler better than I do.

It is interesting how Vando and Beasley sort of fell off last season. I know they were part of the Lakers squad (along with DLO in a separate trade!) that made a playoff run, but Beasley mostly sat on the bench during that run and Vando's weaknesses became too much to overcome as the competition got tougher and he eventually became nothing more than a token starter for them.

Vando is a great example of a guy that can help you "eat up innings" in the regular season, but then come playoff time, he is more of a liability. So there is still value there, but it kind of wanes once you get into post-season play.

Vanderbilt in the playoffs is guy that is very matchup dependent. There might be a team where having him simply D up a guy all game might be smart and that guy won’t be a typical big. Of the vet players we gave up he is the only one kept by the Lakers and that’s likely because he was fairly cheap. Beverly was let go and Beasley is now making the vet min for a contender with the Bucks. I suggested at the time those guys didn’t have a ton of value because of their contracts. Bolmaro was a salary dump.

It’s also worth mentioning that because of the trade the Wolves had more roster spots to work with. Maybe they don’t sign Minott to a Gupta special and they have to put him on a 2 way. Maybe they don’t add Garza who might not turn out but he certainly did some nice things.

Kessler is the guy that looks like we moved that could be quite valuable.

The draft picks? Sure yeah and not having them to be able to use for another move kinda sucks. Meanwhile Connelly has a roster full of young and younger players. In Denver Connelly even with not nailing every pick was almost too good at adding young talent he would be trading it away sometimes to save money again the luxury tax. It’s probably worth noting he isn’t new to finding ways to save money because of the luxury tax. He did that in Denver so yeah he can probably figure that out.

The reality is that if it wasn’t Gobert the Wolves would have likely made a move for a player maybe a significant one and probably a center. It seems clear they weren’t gonna stand pat with just adding Anderson and rim it back. Beasley was gonna be gone anyway and despite Nowell struggling Beasley wasn’t awesome either. Connelly got that one right.

I’m interested to see what this roster that’s assembled looks like especially with summer league a couple days away so we can see what some of the young players look like and if they have made any progress.

[Lipoli390]

I'm with Doper on this one, Lip. A starting lineup of Kessler, SloMo, Jaden, Ant and DLo with KAT and JMac missing most of the season would have won about 38 games max, putting us out of the playoffs. The good news is we would have had a pick around 10 (assuming we didn't move up in the lottery) and after another failed season by Dlo, would likely have chosen Cason Wallace with our pick. I'm not very high on Wallace and don't think he is NBA ready. And without the Conley/Gobert synergy, it's unlikely TC would have made the same deal to move DLo. So he would have been stuck with the dilemma of either going with Wallace as starting PG, or bringing DLo back. And frankly I wouldn't be very excited right now about "running it back" with a starting lineup of Kessler/KAT/Jaden/Ant/Dlo.

I'm not saying TC didn't overpay for Rudy, although frankly I'm not losing much sleep over losing the players we did (I like what Kessler brought last season, but I don't envision a high ceiling for him) plus a last 20s draft pick every other year. I like the defensive dominance we showed when Rudy was on the court, and I'm a lot more excited about the future than I would have been had TC not made the deal. We don't know what moves TC would have made in free agency, but I suspect Lore/ARod wouldn't have been willing to go into the luxury tax with a starting lineup that included Kessler and DLo.

Just my thoughts. Fun exercise though, especially for those who like Kessler better than I do.

I agree that 38 wins would have been a more likely outcome. But I don’t know that TC would have taken Wallace. I’m not very high on Wallace either. I have a lot of faith in TC’s ability to make good draft decisions and bring in young talent. It’s true that he doesn’t hit on all his swings, which isn’t surprising, but he hits on more than most so the more swings he has the better.

I think it’s reasonable to be more excited about the present (next season) based on the Rudy deal. But I can’t see being more excited about the future with Kessler and four future 1st round picks gone, the second apron closing in a year from now and no meaningful financial flexibility. It would have been fun to watch TC go to work this summer with all the assets he would have had at his disposal, including Kessler, a top 10 pick this year, all of the team’s future 1st round picks and lots of financial flexibility. That would be more exciting long term and maybe even more exciting for next season.

I don’t agree with the assessment that TC would not have made the same DLO deal if Gobert weren’t here. I think the deal was more about bringing in a solid stabilizing PG as well as getting NAW and picks than it was about finding the “right” PG for Rudy. One of the things I’m noticing about TC this summer is that he’s not a one-dimensional thinker. He’s thinking and making moves on multiple levels. As I reflect, Conley was the right alternative to DLO for Ant, Jaden and KAT as much as he was for Rudy. I also suspect that NAW was a more important part of that deal than we might be inclined to believe.

Again, I’m optimistic about next season assuming our key guys stay healthy. But I find it fun to reflect on what might have been. I also know that my idea of fun is Sundog’s worst nightmare and that motivated me to start this thread more than anything.

[Sundog]

Ha, got me, Lip! My initial reaction was, why stop there, why not go back to Flynn over Curry, or heck, the choice of Pooh over Tim Hardaway or Shawn Kemp? lol

[Wolvesfan21]

I would have given DLO the max extension.

-Camden