Sundog wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:18 pm
Ha, got me, Lip! My initial reaction was, why stop there, why not go back to Flynn over Curry, or heck, the choice of Pooh over Tim Hardaway or Shawn Kemp? lol
You forgot the following: Kris Dunn over Jamal Murray; Ebi over Josh Howard; Patton over John Collins, Anunoby, and Jarret Allen; Culver over Cam Johnson; Shabazz over Giannis; and cash over Gobert. And how about letting Billups walk in favor of the older often injured Terrell Brandon? With that history, I’m surprised all Wolves fans haven’t taken permanent refuge in an alternative reality.
After the Culver debacle and in spite of the his initial Juancho infatuation, I had the sense that Rosas was unusually competent by Wolves front office standards. A low bar, I know. So far, after a moment of temporary insanity during which he made the Gobert trade, TC seems to be refreshingly competent. So I don’t think I’ll need to spend a lot of time in my alternative universe.
Lip told me in the draft thread that OKC got a really good player drafting Cason Wallace.
This is the way I look at a couple things.
Trading Russell was about 3 things. 1. getting a PG back that could help now plus it gave them a salary they could trade. 2. NAW Adding a young worthwhile player for both last season (honestly NAW probably helped them get into the playoffs because they had no other options with injuries) and they were able to resign him cheap so adding NAW was also for the future. 3. there were the three 2nd round picks. This was for the future. So yeah Lip praised Connellly for thinking a number of ways and it was clear he did that with that trade.
2023 draft
Sometimes once you get to a point in the draft I think there is basically a bucket of players that I don’t think there is THAT big of a difference between the prospects. That doesn’t mean they Al end up being good or whatever but sometimes I’m like pick a name out of a hat and we will see which guy ends up being good. There were a number of wings in a draft I would have been happy taking. Desmond Bane was in that bucket that year. He went in the 2nd round and just got a max contract because he is an excellent 2 way player. I didn’t research this year’s draft so I can’t say what prospects were in that bucket of guys but I’d guess at #33 Leonard Miller would have been and there are some draft guys that had him there or better. So it’s possible Connelly got a 1st round talent with part of the Russell trade. Then he went after a guy in Jaylen Clark who could end up being a good swing too. This is part of the genius of Tim Connelly continuing to add talent despite not having all the draft picks available. This is why he was brought here. This was also why they probably said screw it we want Gobert we are gonna give up draft picks. The reality is Connelly probably already made up for one of those missing draft picks acquiring Miller. He has 3 more to make up for. I won’t be surprised if he is able to continue to add young talent or draft picks via trades and savvy moves.
One thing I’ve noticed about Connelly this offseason and it’s not a new thing but Connelly isn’t just about his guys. If he was he would have acquired Monte Morris or maybe even kept Prince as he was well liked in the organization. He made a decision to deal Russell at the trade deadline. He has traded Vanderbilt twice and Beasley too. He isn’t afraid to make a move if it need to be done. He has also handed out contracts to guys both in Denver and MN. It will be interesting to see how things play wound with McDaniels but I guarantee Connelly isn’t going to send over a lowball offer.
I’ll add one more thing to the previous post about Connelly. When watching Naz’s press conference I was thinking…Tim Connelly will have no problem dealing someone if Naz reaches the level Connelly seems to be suggesting Naz can get to. If that’s Gobert for a couple assets fine. If it’s for a haul for Towns fine. Connelly traded Russell away for the most he could get without really a plan (or not that we could see) for the PG position beyond however long Conley is on the roster. Of course that seemed easier than dealing Gobert or Town but…He sold high on Russell even though it looks bad compared to what was given up to get him a few seasons before. Sure it wasn’t Connelly that made that deal but he made what looks like a good move even if he could have resigned Russell to what would have been a somewhat reasonable contract like the one he signed with the Lakers.
Some have pounded the table for a trade before this season. That makes sense. Waiting till you have more information and know even more what you need to do could make even more sense. Russell probably increased his value last season. It’s very possible both Gobert and Towns raise their value this season. It’s not a guarantee but it’s very possible. Maybe everything else clicks and the reality is the Wolves have mostly what they need they just need to dump Gobert for some draft assets and save salary. Maybe they need to use Gobert to make a move for a better wing or a PG or just depth. I’m gonna reasonably trust Connelly on this.
Monster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:45 pm
I’ll add one more thing to the previous post about Connelly. When watching Naz’s press conference I was thinking…Tim Connelly will have no problem dealing someone if Naz reaches the level Connelly seems to be suggesting Naz can get to. If that’s Gobert for a couple assets fine. If it’s for a haul for Towns fine. Connelly traded Russell away for the most he could get without really a plan (or not that we could see) for the PG position beyond however long Conley is on the roster. Of course that seemed easier than dealing Gobert or Town but…He sold high on Russell even though it looks bad compared to what was given up to get him a few seasons before. Sure it wasn’t Connelly that made that deal but he made what looks like a good move even if he could have resigned Russell to what would have been a somewhat reasonable contract like the one he signed with the Lakers.
Some have pounded the table for a trade before this season. That makes sense. Waiting till you have more information and know even more what you need to do could make even more sense. Russell probably increased his value last season. It’s very possible both Gobert and Towns raise their value this season. It’s not a guarantee but it’s very possible. Maybe everything else clicks and the reality is the Wolves have mostly what they need they just need to dump Gobert for some draft assets and save salary. Maybe they need to use Gobert to make a move for a better wing or a PG or just depth. I’m gonna reasonably trust Connelly on this.
Great post, Monster! I agree completely with your take on this.
Monster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:45 pm
I’ll add one more thing to the previous post about Connelly. When watching Naz’s press conference I was thinking…Tim Connelly will have no problem dealing someone if Naz reaches the level Connelly seems to be suggesting Naz can get to. If that’s Gobert for a couple assets fine. If it’s for a haul for Towns fine. Connelly traded Russell away for the most he could get without really a plan (or not that we could see) for the PG position beyond however long Conley is on the roster. Of course that seemed easier than dealing Gobert or Town but…He sold high on Russell even though it looks bad compared to what was given up to get him a few seasons before. Sure it wasn’t Connelly that made that deal but he made what looks like a good move even if he could have resigned Russell to what would have been a somewhat reasonable contract like the one he signed with the Lakers.
Some have pounded the table for a trade before this season. That makes sense. Waiting till you have more information and know even more what you need to do could make even more sense. Russell probably increased his value last season. It’s very possible both Gobert and Towns raise their value this season. It’s not a guarantee but it’s very possible. Maybe everything else clicks and the reality is the Wolves have mostly what they need they just need to dump Gobert for some draft assets and save salary. Maybe they need to use Gobert to make a move for a better wing or a PG or just depth. I’m gonna reasonably trust Connelly on this.
Great post, Monster! I agree completely with your take on this.
There is no question that TC has laid the groundwork for a trade....specifically a KAT trade. We have multiple 4s/5s or 4s/3s in the pipeline - Reid, Minott, and Miller to be specific. But we have no one like Rudy.
Monster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:45 pm
I’ll add one more thing to the previous post about Connelly. When watching Naz’s press conference I was thinking…Tim Connelly will have no problem dealing someone if Naz reaches the level Connelly seems to be suggesting Naz can get to. If that’s Gobert for a couple assets fine. If it’s for a haul for Towns fine. Connelly traded Russell away for the most he could get without really a plan (or not that we could see) for the PG position beyond however long Conley is on the roster. Of course that seemed easier than dealing Gobert or Town but…He sold high on Russell even though it looks bad compared to what was given up to get him a few seasons before. Sure it wasn’t Connelly that made that deal but he made what looks like a good move even if he could have resigned Russell to what would have been a somewhat reasonable contract like the one he signed with the Lakers.
Some have pounded the table for a trade before this season. That makes sense. Waiting till you have more information and know even more what you need to do could make even more sense. Russell probably increased his value last season. It’s very possible both Gobert and Towns raise their value this season. It’s not a guarantee but it’s very possible. Maybe everything else clicks and the reality is the Wolves have mostly what they need they just need to dump Gobert for some draft assets and save salary. Maybe they need to use Gobert to make a move for a better wing or a PG or just depth. I’m gonna reasonably trust Connelly on this.
Great post, Monster! I agree completely with your take on this.
There is no question that TC has laid the groundwork for a trade....specifically a KAT trade. We have multiple 4s/5s or 4s/3s in the pipeline - Reid, Minott, and Miller to be specific. But we have no one like Rudy.
Monster wrote: ↑Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:45 pm
I’ll add one more thing to the previous post about Connelly. When watching Naz’s press conference I was thinking…Tim Connelly will have no problem dealing someone if Naz reaches the level Connelly seems to be suggesting Naz can get to. If that’s Gobert for a couple assets fine. If it’s for a haul for Towns fine. Connelly traded Russell away for the most he could get without really a plan (or not that we could see) for the PG position beyond however long Conley is on the roster. Of course that seemed easier than dealing Gobert or Town but…He sold high on Russell even though it looks bad compared to what was given up to get him a few seasons before. Sure it wasn’t Connelly that made that deal but he made what looks like a good move even if he could have resigned Russell to what would have been a somewhat reasonable contract like the one he signed with the Lakers.
Some have pounded the table for a trade before this season. That makes sense. Waiting till you have more information and know even more what you need to do could make even more sense. Russell probably increased his value last season. It’s very possible both Gobert and Towns raise their value this season. It’s not a guarantee but it’s very possible. Maybe everything else clicks and the reality is the Wolves have mostly what they need they just need to dump Gobert for some draft assets and save salary. Maybe they need to use Gobert to make a move for a better wing or a PG or just depth. I’m gonna reasonably trust Connelly on this.
Great post, Monster! I agree completely with your take on this.
There is no question that TC has laid the groundwork for a trade....specifically a KAT trade. We have multiple 4s/5s or 4s/3s in the pipeline - Reid, Minott, and Miller to be specific. But we have no one like Rudy.
Q - I agree the groundwork TC has laid seems skewed more towards trading KAT than trading Rudy. But I think the groundwork is flexible enough to support a Rudy trade. To see that possibility, you need only look to what TC did in Denver. He didn’t bring in anyone remotely like Rudy to pair with his offensively gifted center, Jokic. Instead he brought in a highly athletic, mobile PF named Aaron Gordon. Now think about some of the players TC has bought in or taken care to keep. I’m thinking about Jaden McDaniels, Josh Minott and Leonard Miller. All three are highly athletic, long, mobile PFs although McDaniels is also a great fit at SF. Also consider TC’s comments yesterday highlighting Naz Reid’s mobility and ability to play well alongside either Rudy or KAT. Note that in one comment, TC said he sees Naz becoming an elite defender - his words, not mine. TC continues to stress versatility in relation to both skills and position.
When you reflect a bit, Rudy Gobert is the outlier - i.e., the only one who doesn’t fit the prototype TC consistently emphasizes. Does that mean trading Rudy is more likely than trading KAT between now and the beginning of the 2024-25 season? No. But I think it underscores Monster’s point that TC has laid the groundwork for multiple options with one exception - i.e., keeping both Rudy and KAT beyond next season. Now if TC doesn’t give Jaden a new contract (likely close to max) this summer, that would suggest TC intends to preserve the options of keeping both max-salary bigs.
Great post, Monster! I agree completely with your take on this.
There is no question that TC has laid the groundwork for a trade....specifically a KAT trade. We have multiple 4s/5s or 4s/3s in the pipeline - Reid, Minott, and Miller to be specific. But we have no one like Rudy.
Q - I agree the groundwork TC has laid seems skewed more towards trading KAT than trading Rudy. But I think the groundwork is flexible enough to support a Rudy trade. To see that possibility, you need only look to what TC did in Denver. He didn’t bring in anyone remotely like Rudy to pair with his offensively gifted center, Jokic. Instead he brought in a highly athletic, mobile PF named Aaron Gordon. Now think about some of the players TC has bought in or taken care to keep. I’m thinking about Jaden McDaniels, Josh Minott and Leonard Miller. All three are highly athletic, long, mobile PFs although McDaniels is also a great fit at SF. Also consider TC’s comments yesterday highlighting Naz Reid’s mobility and ability to play well alongside either Rudy or KAT. Note that in one comment, TC said he sees Naz becoming an elite defender - his words, not mine. TC continues to stress versatility in relation to both skills and position.
When you reflect a bit, Rudy Gobert is the outlier - i.e., the only one who doesn’t fit the prototype TC consistently emphasizes. Does that mean trading Rudy is more likely than trading KAT between now and the beginning of the 2024-25 season? No. But I think it underscores Monster’s point that TC has laid the groundwork for multiple options with one exception - i.e., keeping both Rudy and KAT beyond next season. Now if TC doesn’t give Jaden a new contract (likely close to max) this summer, that would suggest TC intends to preserve the options of keeping both max-salary bigs.
Q made a great point and then Lip followed with another perspective. I hadn’t thought of Rudy being different like Q pointed out. On the other hand the Wolves are stockpiling lengthy guys some of which play defense or project to do so. The only guys on the roster under 6’4” are FAs after this season. Even if the Wolves traded Gobert away in some ways they could still be a pretty big team. Connelly is adding versatile guys with a lot of length to the roster in the draft and FA. Maybe all that length can work with Towns at C and maybe they get enough guys to keep from being a bad rebounding team regardless of who they moved in a possible trade between Gobert and Towns. I also think some of the talent acquisition is simply Connelly adding the best talent he can. Sometimes you can get too many guys at one spot but I’d rather get too much talent and have to figure it out than lock into doing one thing. Maybe Miller can actually play some as a SF. I’m hoping we get to see guy healthy enough to see what everything looks like for more than like 20 games and then we can go from there.
I think TC is accumulating talent as you indicated Monster. But he’s also been publicly explicit about his intent to target players who are long, athletic and versatile. So when TC drafts Minott Ind year and then moved up to draft Miller the next while refusing to to discuss trading Jaden, TC’s actions are fully aligned with his words. He wants talent but a certain type of talent coupled with high basketball IQ and good character.
