To me one of the biggest factors about how this roster “fits” or functions or maximizes Edwards has a lot to do with coaching. I felt that before but felt it even more after thinking about Dane Moore and Finch’s conversation.
Last offseason there was a ton of talk about Russell’s fit with Gobert and the team in general. I had made the point for months I thought coaching was partly how to get the most out of Russell. While the fit with Gobert was probably a mixed bag, offensively Russell ended up finding a nice groove playing on and off the ball. I tend to give Finch and his staff some credit there. After a bit of a clunky start Conley mostly played excellent on that end playing on and off the ball what will Finch be able to cook up for players this year with more time?
I know we aren’t building around Gobert but Finch also talked about how Edwards playmaking and how having more guys making plays around him would be good especially since they want him having energy to play defense. I was doing some reading about Shake and there is praise for his pick and roll play. Embiid said he was the best at that skill till they added Harden. Maybe Shake won’t work well with Towns or Gobert or Naz but those guys all could be interesting partners if he actually has some game there.
Ultimately it’s on Finch and his staff to get the most out of this group offensively. It will be interesting to see what they do on defense. Finch has a way he likes to do things but I also think he isn’t totally tied to one way of doing things at least on defense and Elston Turner has had success playing both drop and scramble playing small defenses before he came to the Wolves. I think the talent is there. Ultimately does it all fit long term? Idk maybe not but I do have some semblance of confidence this coaching staff can put something together that looks a lot bette than what we saw for a significant chunk of last season. We will see.
Ant and the current roster
Re: Ant and the current roster
I agree with that, Monster — and Finch seemed to say as much in the interview with Dane, saying something like the coaching staff needs to integrate more “structured spacing” to unlock the individual weapons that Ant, KAT and Rudy have.
Re: Ant and the current roster
I trust Finch to get the most out of the players he has. I just think Gobert limits the top end potential of the team. Finch can focus on getting Rudy to not occupy as much space, but he can only do so much because Rudy has no value offensively outside the paint. He can’t score from more than a foot from the basket and he’s not a good passer. Moreover, having him on the court with KAT means two of our five starters are slow and not very mobile in a fast-paced, highly athletic league. If Kyle is out there with them that’s three.
If KAT, Ant and Jaden stay healthy all season the Wolves will be better than last season. Finch will do a better job of optimizing what the team can do with KAT and Rudy on the floor together. But he can only do so much. And ultimately, KAT and Rudy can’t remain on the team from a payroll perspective under the new CBA. So the sooner we get back to the 46-win team we were two seasons ago the better. We never had the chance to see KAT play with the much improved Ant and Jaden as well as Kyle Anderson. We needed to build on that and we still can if we move on from Rudy sooner rather than later.
But I understand it’s unlikely Rudy will be traded this summer. And I think this team is good and deep enough to win 46-50 games next season with Rudy if Ant, KAT and Jaden stay healthy. I’m OK with that.
Re: Ant and the current roster
Bumping this discussion as we get closer to training camp. Here are some thoughts on the current roster:
1. Rudy may have lost a step, didn’t play that well in FIBA that I could tell. We’re unlikely to see the Rudy we traded for. But I don’t think the Wolves need the Rudy we traded for, we only need him to be as good as was last year. Terrific team defense metrics when Rudy was on the court, Ant’s true shooting % is terrific when Rudy’s on the court. It’s a continuing ridiculous overpay but that’s a front office problem, not an on court problem.
2. I was just listening to Austin Rivers podcast, who talked about the “chaos” in the paint last year, with Rudy taking up so much room and KAT trying to post up down there, leaning no space for Ant to work. He criticized KAT, saying he’s a 4 now he’s got to play like a 4, how that spacing is critical for Ant. KAT’s gotta shoot threes and make good, quick decisions to move the ball. FIBA seems like it’s been a terrific tuneup for KAT, let’s hope he hits the ground running in training camp.
3. I’m pretty excited about the fact that NAW has solidified into a reliable 3 and D guy. That’s what we hoped for last year, and his solid play has continued in FIBA. I learned on a recent podcast that he, Milton, Brown are all above league average shooting 3s above the break. The three of them should be a significant upgrade from JMac, Nowell, and Prince, in both shooting and perimeter defense. Those are both areas of significant weakness last season. (I’m not expecting JMac to be in the regular rotation.)
4. We haven’t heard boo from McDaniels this summer. Nothing. Not sure what that portends.
5. The thing I’m most worried about is Ant. Everyone wants to crown him the next MJ, but he’s not there yet. He gets up for big games, but MJ, Kobe, Larry, Magic got themselves up for the bottom feeders in February, making up slights and other things in their heads to motivate themselves every night. I haven’t seen anything like that yet from Ant. Talent out the wazoo, but does he have what it takes to grind on both sides of the ball every game. The accolades from his play at FIBA could motivate him or turn his head and distract him.
6. The other big question in my mind is whether Finch and his team is up to the job of making these disparate pieces work. Connelly has been doing his (with the exception of the Rudy trade, but the jury is still out on that for me)… he’s adding good pieces for Finch to work with. But Finch and his brain trust have to hit the ground running this season. Make or break time.
1. Rudy may have lost a step, didn’t play that well in FIBA that I could tell. We’re unlikely to see the Rudy we traded for. But I don’t think the Wolves need the Rudy we traded for, we only need him to be as good as was last year. Terrific team defense metrics when Rudy was on the court, Ant’s true shooting % is terrific when Rudy’s on the court. It’s a continuing ridiculous overpay but that’s a front office problem, not an on court problem.
2. I was just listening to Austin Rivers podcast, who talked about the “chaos” in the paint last year, with Rudy taking up so much room and KAT trying to post up down there, leaning no space for Ant to work. He criticized KAT, saying he’s a 4 now he’s got to play like a 4, how that spacing is critical for Ant. KAT’s gotta shoot threes and make good, quick decisions to move the ball. FIBA seems like it’s been a terrific tuneup for KAT, let’s hope he hits the ground running in training camp.
3. I’m pretty excited about the fact that NAW has solidified into a reliable 3 and D guy. That’s what we hoped for last year, and his solid play has continued in FIBA. I learned on a recent podcast that he, Milton, Brown are all above league average shooting 3s above the break. The three of them should be a significant upgrade from JMac, Nowell, and Prince, in both shooting and perimeter defense. Those are both areas of significant weakness last season. (I’m not expecting JMac to be in the regular rotation.)
4. We haven’t heard boo from McDaniels this summer. Nothing. Not sure what that portends.
5. The thing I’m most worried about is Ant. Everyone wants to crown him the next MJ, but he’s not there yet. He gets up for big games, but MJ, Kobe, Larry, Magic got themselves up for the bottom feeders in February, making up slights and other things in their heads to motivate themselves every night. I haven’t seen anything like that yet from Ant. Talent out the wazoo, but does he have what it takes to grind on both sides of the ball every game. The accolades from his play at FIBA could motivate him or turn his head and distract him.
6. The other big question in my mind is whether Finch and his team is up to the job of making these disparate pieces work. Connelly has been doing his (with the exception of the Rudy trade, but the jury is still out on that for me)… he’s adding good pieces for Finch to work with. But Finch and his brain trust have to hit the ground running this season. Make or break time.
Re: Ant and the current roster
Thumbs up!
Re: Ant and the current roster
Great stuff here Sundog! I totally agree on Ant. He's not a superstar yet. He certainly has all the ingredients and charisma of a superstar, but he isn't one yet. But the fact is that even if we simply get last year's version of Ant, which is a top 15-20 player, this team still has upside to do better. McDaniels has been on a steady upward development trajectory; KAT staying healthy; NAW as an upgrade over Nowell. Etc. Of course, players can get worse too, and guys like Rudy, Conley, and Kyle Anderson aren't getting any younger.Sundog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:02 am Bumping this discussion as we get closer to training camp. Here are some thoughts on the current roster:
1. Rudy may have lost a step, didn’t play that well in FIBA that I could tell. We’re unlikely to see the Rudy we traded for. But I don’t think the Wolves need the Rudy we traded for, we only need him to be as good as was last year. Terrific team defense metrics when Rudy was on the court, Ant’s true shooting % is terrific when Rudy’s on the court. It’s a continuing ridiculous overpay but that’s a front office problem, not an on court problem.
2. I was just listening to Austin Rivers podcast, who talked about the “chaos” in the paint last year, with Rudy taking up so much room and KAT trying to post up down there, leaning no space for Ant to work. He criticized KAT, saying he’s a 4 now he’s got to play like a 4, how that spacing is critical for Ant. KAT’s gotta shoot threes and make good, quick decisions to move the ball. FIBA seems like it’s been a terrific tuneup for KAT, let’s hope he hits the ground running in training camp.
3. I’m pretty excited about the fact that NAW has solidified into a reliable 3 and D guy. That’s what we hoped for last year, and his solid play has continued in FIBA. I learned on a recent podcast that he, Milton, Brown are all above league average shooting 3s above the break. The three of them should be a significant upgrade from JMac, Nowell, and Prince, in both shooting and perimeter defense. Those are both areas of significant weakness last season. (I’m not expecting JMac to be in the regular rotation.)
4. We haven’t heard boo from McDaniels this summer. Nothing. Not sure what that portends.
5. The thing I’m most worried about is Ant. Everyone wants to crown him the next MJ, but he’s not there yet. He gets up for big games, but MJ, Kobe, Larry, Magic got themselves up for the bottom feeders in February, making up slights and other things in their heads to motivate themselves every night. I haven’t seen anything like that yet from Ant. Talent out the wazoo, but does he have what it takes to grind on both sides of the ball every game. The accolades from his play at FIBA could motivate him or turn his head and distract him.
6. The other big question in my mind is whether Finch and his team is up to the job of making these disparate pieces work. Connelly has been doing his (with the exception of the Rudy trade, but the jury is still out on that for me)… he’s adding good pieces for Finch to work with. But Finch and his brain trust have to hit the ground running this season. Make or break time.
But yeah, the West is SO talented and competitive that there just isn't much room for error.
Re: Ant and the current roster
Sundog - I agree with you that Ant isn’t yet and may never be the MJ caliber player he claims to be and that we all want him to be. Tim Grover would call Ant a “closer.” That’s someone who will sometimes carry his team or hit big shots but only when the bright lights are one him. The question is whether Ant will ever become what Grover calls a “cleaner.” A cleaner according to Tim is the guy who almost always performs at an elite level against all levels of competition even when the big-game spotlight isn’t shining. Grover mentions MJ, Kobe, Dwayne Wade and Larry Bird among the NBA players he considers cleaners.
We don’t know yet whether Ant will ever be a cleaner. He’s not there yet. The good news, as Q pointed out, is that the Wolves can do well even if Ant is a closer as he was last season. But if this team is going to be a championship contender, Ant will have to become a cleaner in the mold of a Kobe or Dwayne Wade if not MJ. I’m not ready to predict whether Ant will ascend to the next level. I continue to have lingering doubts about him because I’m not sure he has the serious approach to the game he’ll need to become a cleaner. If you watched MJ, Kobe, Wade and Bird, you’ll recall that although they had fun they were deadly serious and focused in their approach to the game. The jury’s still out on Ant - not on his talent or ability to perform but on whether he can be the consistently elite performer who can carry a team to championship contention.
We don’t know yet whether Ant will ever be a cleaner. He’s not there yet. The good news, as Q pointed out, is that the Wolves can do well even if Ant is a closer as he was last season. But if this team is going to be a championship contender, Ant will have to become a cleaner in the mold of a Kobe or Dwayne Wade if not MJ. I’m not ready to predict whether Ant will ascend to the next level. I continue to have lingering doubts about him because I’m not sure he has the serious approach to the game he’ll need to become a cleaner. If you watched MJ, Kobe, Wade and Bird, you’ll recall that although they had fun they were deadly serious and focused in their approach to the game. The jury’s still out on Ant - not on his talent or ability to perform but on whether he can be the consistently elite performer who can carry a team to championship contention.