Game Day Thread 11/10/23 @ Spurs

[KG4Ever]

Wolves took care of business and Wolves are just much more polished. Wemby is so skilled it will be fun to see how he develops, but he makes lots of rookie mistakes and he takes too many long twos. I think Spurs should use more Tre Jones than Jeremy Sochan at point guard. Sochan is not a natural point guard and he misses plenty of open look opportunities to hit Wemby. Keldon Johnson is a tunnel vision player and he seems to never hit Wemby. Collins, Vassel and Tre Jones are heady players but Wemby, Sochan and Keldon are still trying to figure things out. Collins was in foul trouble and that hurt the Spurs a lot as he is a primary facilitator for their offense. Good win for Wolves and they finally snag a road win. On to the Bay area (my home base) to face the Warriors.

[Jester1534]

Yeah some very questionable one sided calls down the stretch here

I don't know about that. Spurs got called for more fouls than Wolves and Spurs announcers were complaining about several calls too. I honestly thought it was pretty even. But even if the officiating was bad, the Wolves have two challenges to use and it didn't affect the outcome.

I always look for both teams reactions to the refs and there was obvious disdain by both sides tonight. It got to the point where Mike Conely had to be calmed down because he almost got a Tech. Pop called the stupidest challenge of the year just so he could yell at the ref about how ticky tack the foul call was.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

We didn't play well, but still won. I'll take it. Nice to start the in-season tournament with a win too.

There should be plenty of tape from this one for us to review how NOT to play. Just so many reckless passes and plenty of moments of lazy defense too.

Jaden and KAT
Jaden had a tough call there at the end (and why in the world didn't Finch challenge that?!), but man, Jaden has got to be more careful not to pick up so many fouls. KAT made some bad decisions, and he's lucky he didn't get called for more fouls, but I did like how he was taking those open 3s off the catch, which we need to try to manufacture more on offense.

Defense
The Spurs are not a great team, especially trying to force Sochan as a point guard, but our defense was pretty good again last night. Gobert looks great on that end. KAT's even playing fairly solid D. Ant needs to lock in more consistently, but he's capable of wreaking havoc on the ball. Jaden's great as usual, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. NAW's just a really good defender. Conley was a liability on that end last night against Sochan in the paint, but he's usually fine against guys closer to his size, and the Spurs are kind of unique in running such a big backcourt at both positions. And SloMo and Naz have both been pretty good defenders too. We just have the individual players to form a very good defense, and we're showing that we're capable of playing with pride on that end. Now we just need to make sure to take even more pride on that end and do it consistently. It should be our goal every night to hold the opponent under 100. We won't be able to do it in this day and age, but if we go in with that mentality, we could seriously be a contender if we also just play within ourselves on offense.

Offense
Again, the big thing here is KAT just needs to take what the defense gives him and not force drives into traffic or try high-risk passes. We should also try to post him up a little more. But if he just plays under control, he'll give us a huge boost. One other thought from last night--the Shake minutes on offense looked "shaky" to me. I know he played PG in Philly, but I don't think he has the ball-security mentality that you typically want in a backup PG, and which I think we'll miss with Jordan out. His ability to protect the ball on offense is a serious question mark for me, because we may need to rely on his size off the bench in the playoffs because other teams could really try to target Jordan in the playoffs if he has to play too many minutes. This sounds crazy to say, but I think making sure that Shake can run the point under control without turning the ball over should be a serious goal for this team, because the backup PG spot looks like a serious weak point. Shake can work on his ballhandling and decision-making, but Jordan can't practice himself 3 inches taller.

[Jester1534]

Last comment on at night game about the end game

According to my betting site the spread was -7 pts for the spurs lol hmmmmmmmm

[FNG]

Last comment on at night game about the end game

According to my betting site the spread was -7 pts for the spurs lol hmmmmmmmm

And the Wolves passed up a chance for a wide open layup in the last 10 seconds that would have covered the spread. It's considered bad form to score after the other team has given up, but still...that's why betting basketball is so difficult.

[Lipoli390]

We didn't play well, but still won. I'll take it. Nice to start the in-season tournament with a win too.

There should be plenty of tape from this one for us to review how NOT to play. Just so many reckless passes and plenty of moments of lazy defense too.

Jaden and KAT
Jaden had a tough call there at the end (and why in the world didn't Finch challenge that?!), but man, Jaden has got to be more careful not to pick up so many fouls. KAT made some bad decisions, and he's lucky he didn't get called for more fouls, but I did like how he was taking those open 3s off the catch, which we need to try to manufacture more on offense.

Defense
The Spurs are not a great team, especially trying to force Sochan as a point guard, but our defense was pretty good again last night. Gobert looks great on that end. KAT's even playing fairly solid D. Ant needs to lock in more consistently, but he's capable of wreaking havoc on the ball. Jaden's great as usual, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. NAW's just a really good defender. Conley was a liability on that end last night against Sochan in the paint, but he's usually fine against guys closer to his size, and the Spurs are kind of unique in running such a big backcourt at both positions. And SloMo and Naz have both been pretty good defenders too. We just have the individual players to form a very good defense, and we're showing that we're capable of playing with pride on that end. Now we just need to make sure to take even more pride on that end and do it consistently. It should be our goal every night to hold the opponent under 100. We won't be able to do it in this day and age, but if we go in with that mentality, we could seriously be a contender if we also just play within ourselves on offense.

Offense
Again, the big thing here is KAT just needs to take what the defense gives him and not force drives into traffic or try high-risk passes. We should also try to post him up a little more. But if he just plays under control, he'll give us a huge boost. One other thought from last night--the Shake minutes on offense looked "shaky" to me. I know he played PG in Philly, but I don't think he has the ball-security mentality that you typically want in a backup PG, and which I think we'll miss with Jordan out. His ability to protect the ball on offense is a serious question mark for me, because we may need to rely on his size off the bench in the playoffs because other teams could really try to target Jordan in the playoffs if he has to play too many minutes. This sounds crazy to say, but I think making sure that Shake can run the point under control without turning the ball over should be a serious goal for this team, because the backup PG spot looks like a serious weak point. Shake can work on his ballhandling and decision-making, but Jordan can't practice himself 3 inches taller.

Great breakdown, Drew. I’ll add a few things.

I thought last night was a great illustration of why this team needs KAT. You can’t be a legitimate contender in the NBA today without at least two elite scorers and for the Wolves right now that’s Ant and KAT. KAT was back to his old form offensively last night, which was bound to happen eventually. The Wolves needed the 57 points they got from KAT and Ant - almost half the Wolves total. Jaden’s offense is still a work in progress and no one on the team is remotely close to being an elite scorer in a high-scoring, offensive-oriented League. What bodes particularly well for the Wolves is the fact that, as KAT’s offense has started to come around the last couple games, his much-improved defense hasn’t declined. KAT needs to bring the demeanor he had last night to every game. If he does that and maintains his improved defense, this will be his best season in a career that so far has a lot of terrific all-star seasons. Let’s not forget that if KAT hadn’t come back late last season, the Wolves probably would not have made the play-in tournament. You’ll see what I mean if you look back at the box scores of those last few games when KAT’s contributions were obviously critical to the team’s wins down the stretch. So we need KAT to be his better self if we’re going to be a genuine competitors this season.

Something really exciting about both KAT and Rudy is that both of them seem to have significantly improved an important aspect of their respective games. KAT has significantly improved his defense, while Rudy has improved both his conditioning and his passing while also doing a better job of staying out of the way on offense. You don’t see a lot of players age 28 or 31 making those sorts of improvements. They’re still not entirely in sync offensively with one another, but it sure looks like they’re both committed to figuring it out.

Regarding Milton, I’ve already posted my view that he’s not a good fit at the PG position given his relatively shaky handle and overall lack of feel for the position. I know that one of my favorite posters (KG) disagrees. Milton’s deficiencies were evident again last night. Let’s face it, Shake’s handle isn’t going to improve over the course of a single season, and at his age, it’s not going to improve over a period of years. He is what he is. I like him as a shooter off the bench and think his shooting will come around, but he’s not an adequate backup PG. Unfortunately, Milton’s defense doesn’t make up for his offensive shortcoming at the PG position. He’s not a good defender, especially against quick PGs, because he’s is not particularly quick or nimble. I’ll take a smaller and very quick player (JMac) over a longer and slow player (Shake) defensively at the PG position because the crux of defending perimeter players is staying in front of them, getting into them and pestering them quick hands. That’s as true in the playoffs as it is in the regular season. I’m not suggesting that JMac is necessarily THE answer at the backup PG spot, but I’m convinced Shake is not. Nevertheless, if JMac comes back healthy in a month and we don’t lose Mike Conley for an extended period of time this season, I think we’ll be OK at the PG position. And Shake will ultimately help this team as a shooter off the bench.

[KG4Ever]

We didn't play well, but still won. I'll take it. Nice to start the in-season tournament with a win too.

There should be plenty of tape from this one for us to review how NOT to play. Just so many reckless passes and plenty of moments of lazy defense too.

Jaden and KAT
Jaden had a tough call there at the end (and why in the world didn't Finch challenge that?!), but man, Jaden has got to be more careful not to pick up so many fouls. KAT made some bad decisions, and he's lucky he didn't get called for more fouls, but I did like how he was taking those open 3s off the catch, which we need to try to manufacture more on offense.

Defense
The Spurs are not a great team, especially trying to force Sochan as a point guard, but our defense was pretty good again last night. Gobert looks great on that end. KAT's even playing fairly solid D. Ant needs to lock in more consistently, but he's capable of wreaking havoc on the ball. Jaden's great as usual, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. NAW's just a really good defender. Conley was a liability on that end last night against Sochan in the paint, but he's usually fine against guys closer to his size, and the Spurs are kind of unique in running such a big backcourt at both positions. And SloMo and Naz have both been pretty good defenders too. We just have the individual players to form a very good defense, and we're showing that we're capable of playing with pride on that end. Now we just need to make sure to take even more pride on that end and do it consistently. It should be our goal every night to hold the opponent under 100. We won't be able to do it in this day and age, but if we go in with that mentality, we could seriously be a contender if we also just play within ourselves on offense.

Offense
Again, the big thing here is KAT just needs to take what the defense gives him and not force drives into traffic or try high-risk passes. We should also try to post him up a little more. But if he just plays under control, he'll give us a huge boost. One other thought from last night--the Shake minutes on offense looked "shaky" to me. I know he played PG in Philly, but I don't think he has the ball-security mentality that you typically want in a backup PG, and which I think we'll miss with Jordan out. His ability to protect the ball on offense is a serious question mark for me, because we may need to rely on his size off the bench in the playoffs because other teams could really try to target Jordan in the playoffs if he has to play too many minutes. This sounds crazy to say, but I think making sure that Shake can run the point under control without turning the ball over should be a serious goal for this team, because the backup PG spot looks like a serious weak point. Shake can work on his ballhandling and decision-making, but Jordan can't practice himself 3 inches taller.

Shake played both guard spots at Philly. I'm not sure the breakdown but in his 11 starts last year he was the primary ballhandler. Shake doesn't have the handles of JMAC or Conley, but his career assist/turnover rate is 2.31 which is fine for a combo guard and he does have better assist/turnover rate than DLO and NAW. I saw one of Shake's turnovers and I give Tre Jones a lot of credit as he was one of the best at getting steals with knocking the ball loose from the back and using his quick hands to take the ball away. Shake is new to this offense, so there is a little bit of a learning curve, but he looks fine to me, and he is the kind of guy who looks better with more minutes.

[KG4Ever]

We didn't play well, but still won. I'll take it. Nice to start the in-season tournament with a win too.

There should be plenty of tape from this one for us to review how NOT to play. Just so many reckless passes and plenty of moments of lazy defense too.

Jaden and KAT
Jaden had a tough call there at the end (and why in the world didn't Finch challenge that?!), but man, Jaden has got to be more careful not to pick up so many fouls. KAT made some bad decisions, and he's lucky he didn't get called for more fouls, but I did like how he was taking those open 3s off the catch, which we need to try to manufacture more on offense.

Defense
The Spurs are not a great team, especially trying to force Sochan as a point guard, but our defense was pretty good again last night. Gobert looks great on that end. KAT's even playing fairly solid D. Ant needs to lock in more consistently, but he's capable of wreaking havoc on the ball. Jaden's great as usual, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. NAW's just a really good defender. Conley was a liability on that end last night against Sochan in the paint, but he's usually fine against guys closer to his size, and the Spurs are kind of unique in running such a big backcourt at both positions. And SloMo and Naz have both been pretty good defenders too. We just have the individual players to form a very good defense, and we're showing that we're capable of playing with pride on that end. Now we just need to make sure to take even more pride on that end and do it consistently. It should be our goal every night to hold the opponent under 100. We won't be able to do it in this day and age, but if we go in with that mentality, we could seriously be a contender if we also just play within ourselves on offense.

Offense
Again, the big thing here is KAT just needs to take what the defense gives him and not force drives into traffic or try high-risk passes. We should also try to post him up a little more. But if he just plays under control, he'll give us a huge boost. One other thought from last night--the Shake minutes on offense looked "shaky" to me. I know he played PG in Philly, but I don't think he has the ball-security mentality that you typically want in a backup PG, and which I think we'll miss with Jordan out. His ability to protect the ball on offense is a serious question mark for me, because we may need to rely on his size off the bench in the playoffs because other teams could really try to target Jordan in the playoffs if he has to play too many minutes. This sounds crazy to say, but I think making sure that Shake can run the point under control without turning the ball over should be a serious goal for this team, because the backup PG spot looks like a serious weak point. Shake can work on his ballhandling and decision-making, but Jordan can't practice himself 3 inches taller.

Great breakdown, Drew. I’ll add a few things.

I thought last night was a great illustration of why this team needs KAT. You can’t be a legitimate contender in the NBA today without at least two elite scorers and for the Wolves right now that’s Ant and KAT. KAT was back to his old form offensively last night, which was bound to happen eventually. The Wolves needed the 57 points they got from KAT and Ant - almost half the Wolves total. Jaden’s offense is still a work in progress and no one on the team is remotely close to being an elite scorer in a high-scoring, offensive-oriented League. What bodes particularly well for the Wolves is the fact that, as KAT’s offense has started to come around the last couple games, his much-improved defense hasn’t declined. KAT needs to bring the demeanor he had last night to every game. If he does that and maintains his improved defense, this will be his best season in a career that so far has a lot of terrific all-star seasons. Let’s not forget that if KAT hadn’t come back late last season, the Wolves probably would not have made the play-in tournament. You’ll see what I mean if you look back at the box scores of those last few games when KAT’s contributions were obviously critical to the team’s wins down the stretch. So we need KAT to be his better self if we’re going to be a genuine competitors this season.

Something really exciting about both KAT and Rudy is that both of them seem to have significantly improved an important aspect of their respective games. KAT has significantly improved his defense, while Rudy has improved both his conditioning and his passing while also doing a better job of staying out of the way on offense. You don’t see a lot of players age 28 or 31 making those sorts of improvements. They’re still not entirely in sync offensively with one another, but it sure looks like they’re both committed to figuring it out.

Regarding Milton, I’ve already posted my view that he’s not a good fit at the PG position given his relatively shaky handle and overall lack of feel for the position. I know that one of my favorite posters (KG) disagrees. Milton’s deficiencies were evident again last night. Let’s face it, Shake’s handle isn’t going to improve over the course of a single season, and at his age, it’s not going to improve over a period of years. He is what he is. I like him as a shooter off the bench and think his shooting will come around, but he’s not an adequate backup PG. Unfortunately, Milton’s defense doesn’t make up for his offensive shortcoming at the PG position. He’s not a good defender, especially against quick PGs, because he’s is not particularly quick or nimble. I’ll take a smaller and very quick player (JMac) over a longer and slow player (Shake) defensively at the PG position because the crux of defending perimeter players is staying in front of them, getting into them and pestering them quick hands. That’s as true in the playoffs as it is in the regular season. I’m not suggesting that JMac is necessarily THE answer at the backup PG spot, but I’m convinced Shake is not. Nevertheless, if JMac comes back healthy in a month and we don’t lose Mike Conley for an extended period of time this season, I think we’ll be OK at the PG position. And Shake will ultimately help this team as a shooter off the bench.

I like JMAC particularly his ballhandling, but Shake is a better shooter, rebounder and defender than JMAC. How did Philly win 15 of 19 games that Shake played 28 or more minutes then if he sucks as bad as you think. I hope you come around. Shake plays better with more minutes and this is probably more true coming into a new team and learning a new system. Signing Shake was one of many brilliant moves by TC and TC views Shake as a point guard.

Despite Shake's age, he is young in terms of NBA play, so I don't buy the "he is what he is" thought. He's played a total of 262 NBA games and has 49 career starts. He's probably played off guard more than point guard. Point guard is the position that takes the longest to learn. Shake is already a good player for a backup and he does have upside. He was one of the best college shooters (three years over 42%) and with time, he has the potential to be a 40% NBA shooter. With more time at point guard, I think he is likely to improve on his 2.31 turnover to assist rate. He is very long and has a good basketball IQ and plays hard, so I think he can be a decent defender.

[Coolbreeze44]

Let's see how KAT plays against the Warriors. These are games he should dominate. The warriors really have no answer for him. Hopefully he shows up for big games for a change and stays out of his own head.

[Monster]

We didn't play well, but still won. I'll take it. Nice to start the in-season tournament with a win too.

There should be plenty of tape from this one for us to review how NOT to play. Just so many reckless passes and plenty of moments of lazy defense too.

Jaden and KAT
Jaden had a tough call there at the end (and why in the world didn't Finch challenge that?!), but man, Jaden has got to be more careful not to pick up so many fouls. KAT made some bad decisions, and he's lucky he didn't get called for more fouls, but I did like how he was taking those open 3s off the catch, which we need to try to manufacture more on offense.

Defense
The Spurs are not a great team, especially trying to force Sochan as a point guard, but our defense was pretty good again last night. Gobert looks great on that end. KAT's even playing fairly solid D. Ant needs to lock in more consistently, but he's capable of wreaking havoc on the ball. Jaden's great as usual, and just needs to stay out of foul trouble. NAW's just a really good defender. Conley was a liability on that end last night against Sochan in the paint, but he's usually fine against guys closer to his size, and the Spurs are kind of unique in running such a big backcourt at both positions. And SloMo and Naz have both been pretty good defenders too. We just have the individual players to form a very good defense, and we're showing that we're capable of playing with pride on that end. Now we just need to make sure to take even more pride on that end and do it consistently. It should be our goal every night to hold the opponent under 100. We won't be able to do it in this day and age, but if we go in with that mentality, we could seriously be a contender if we also just play within ourselves on offense.

Offense
Again, the big thing here is KAT just needs to take what the defense gives him and not force drives into traffic or try high-risk passes. We should also try to post him up a little more. But if he just plays under control, he'll give us a huge boost. One other thought from last night--the Shake minutes on offense looked "shaky" to me. I know he played PG in Philly, but I don't think he has the ball-security mentality that you typically want in a backup PG, and which I think we'll miss with Jordan out. His ability to protect the ball on offense is a serious question mark for me, because we may need to rely on his size off the bench in the playoffs because other teams could really try to target Jordan in the playoffs if he has to play too many minutes. This sounds crazy to say, but I think making sure that Shake can run the point under control without turning the ball over should be a serious goal for this team, because the backup PG spot looks like a serious weak point. Shake can work on his ballhandling and decision-making, but Jordan can't practice himself 3 inches taller.

Great breakdown, Drew. I’ll add a few things.

I thought last night was a great illustration of why this team needs KAT. You can’t be a legitimate contender in the NBA today without at least two elite scorers and for the Wolves right now that’s Ant and KAT. KAT was back to his old form offensively last night, which was bound to happen eventually. The Wolves needed the 57 points they got from KAT and Ant - almost half the Wolves total. Jaden’s offense is still a work in progress and no one on the team is remotely close to being an elite scorer in a high-scoring, offensive-oriented League. What bodes particularly well for the Wolves is the fact that, as KAT’s offense has started to come around the last couple games, his much-improved defense hasn’t declined. KAT needs to bring the demeanor he had last night to every game. If he does that and maintains his improved defense, this will be his best season in a career that so far has a lot of terrific all-star seasons. Let’s not forget that if KAT hadn’t come back late last season, the Wolves probably would not have made the play-in tournament. You’ll see what I mean if you look back at the box scores of those last few games when KAT’s contributions were obviously critical to the team’s wins down the stretch. So we need KAT to be his better self if we’re going to be a genuine competitors this season.

Something really exciting about both KAT and Rudy is that both of them seem to have significantly improved an important aspect of their respective games. KAT has significantly improved his defense, while Rudy has improved both his conditioning and his passing while also doing a better job of staying out of the way on offense. You don’t see a lot of players age 28 or 31 making those sorts of improvements. They’re still not entirely in sync offensively with one another, but it sure looks like they’re both committed to figuring it out.

Regarding Milton, I’ve already posted my view that he’s not a good fit at the PG position given his relatively shaky handle and overall lack of feel for the position. I know that one of my favorite posters (KG) disagrees. Milton’s deficiencies were evident again last night. Let’s face it, Shake’s handle isn’t going to improve over the course of a single season, and at his age, it’s not going to improve over a period of years. He is what he is. I like him as a shooter off the bench and think his shooting will come around, but he’s not an adequate backup PG. Unfortunately, Milton’s defense doesn’t make up for his offensive shortcoming at the PG position. He’s not a good defender, especially against quick PGs, because he’s is not particularly quick or nimble. I’ll take a smaller and very quick player (JMac) over a longer and slow player (Shake) defensively at the PG position because the crux of defending perimeter players is staying in front of them, getting into them and pestering them quick hands. That’s as true in the playoffs as it is in the regular season. I’m not suggesting that JMac is necessarily THE answer at the backup PG spot, but I’m convinced Shake is not. Nevertheless, if JMac comes back healthy in a month and we don’t lose Mike Conley for an extended period of time this season, I think we’ll be OK at the PG position. And Shake will ultimately help this team as a shooter off the bench.

I like JMAC particularly his ballhandling, but Shake is a better shooter, rebounder and defender than JMAC. How did Philly win 15 of 19 games that Shake played 28 or more minutes then if he sucks as bad as you think. I hope you come around. Shake plays better with more minutes and this is probably more true coming into a new team and learning a new system. Signing Shake was one of many brilliant moves by TC and TC views Shake as a point guard.

Despite Shake's age, he is young in terms of NBA play, so I don't buy the "he is what he is" thought. He's played a total of 262 NBA games and has 49 career starts. He's probably played off guard more than point guard. Point guard is the position that takes the longest to learn. Shake is already a good player for a backup and he does have upside. He was one of the best college shooters (three years over 42%) and with time, he has the potential to be a 40% NBA shooter. With more time at point guard, I think he is likely to improve on his 2.31 turnover to assist rate. He is very long and has a good basketball IQ and plays hard, so I think he can be a decent defender.

All this talk about Shake, meanwhile NAW has done quite well playing as the backup PG. He played excellent in this game in his role. Meanwhile Anderson tried to throw the game away. It was annoying on the Spurs broadcast Sean Elliot had no clue about Anderson’s glasses. Anyway until it’s proved otherwise NAW should be playing more as a PG than Shake because he simply has been better at it this season. I believe Shake is going to end up being a valuable contributor regardless of what role he ends up playing.