Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:20 pm
With Utah they had other then Rudy mostly crap defenders. Many point to him for not being able to guard the entire other team. But defense is all 5 guys playing hard and elite. You can't just have one guy do it all. As we've seen with the Wolves so far for the most part. Defense does win and it can translate into the playoffs. That is if the entire team continues to play at or above their current level.
I'd actually argue that the playoffs are more half court and more physical as well (they really are). Which only plays into the Wolves hands. Sure if you got five great shooters and they get hot, maybe that does win out. But then you have to stop the Wolves on offense too, and rebound. Good luck outrebounding both KAT and Rudy with 6-6 guys. We can crash the offensive boards as well (take a risk a bit to get it and not lose in transition). Rebounding is huge in the game but not often talked about or glamorized.
I actually like the Wolves chances against a smaller lineup over 7 games. It'll be hard for teams to get and stay that hot to outshoot the Wolves hopefully elite defense (knock on wood it continues and still improves). Rebounding I think will be the key.
To me, shooting is way more important than rebounding. And the Wolves have already proven that their size doesn't really make a big difference when it comes to rebounding. And they get beat to almost every loose ball because they lack speed to the ball.
We have too much $ invested in Naz, Gobert, and KAT and not enough $ invested in guards. I'm not suggesting any quick fixes as long as we keep rolling, but this is not a deep playoff team constructed this way. Like I said, I'd be fine if we win one or two playoff series this year as that is still great progress. But this offense is just not good enough to go further.
Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:57 pm
Cmon Q … enjoy the start to the season. There will be plenty of time to worry about things like that later on.
Believe it or not, I can have two feelings at the same time without them being in conflict with each other: A) I'm loving the winning and enjoying the team; and B) I don't believe they will be good enough to go deep in the playoffs this year.
Now do you have a counter-argument or pushback to the substance of my argument?
Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:14 pm
No, we’ve beaten this horse until it’s well past dead. Feel free to continue to beat it, but you’ll do it
without me, lol.
Sundog - I understand not wanting anyone to rain on our parade, but there’s nothing wrong with discussing a negative in the midst of mainly positive news. And Q’s post wasn’t all negative as he noted that Rudy’s defense has lifted the team’s floor and so far it’s helped this team achieve a 9-3 record. But Q’s right in my view that the Wolves future as a true title contender will not likely include Rudy.
In any event, it’s always good when someone says Lip was right. .
Wolvesfan21 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:20 pm
With Utah they had other then Rudy mostly crap defenders. Many point to him for not being able to guard the entire other team. But defense is all 5 guys playing hard and elite. You can't just have one guy do it all. As we've seen with the Wolves so far for the most part. Defense does win and it can translate into the playoffs. That is if the entire team continues to play at or above their current level.
I'd actually argue that the playoffs are more half court and more physical as well (they really are). Which only plays into the Wolves hands. Sure if you got five great shooters and they get hot, maybe that does win out. But then you have to stop the Wolves on offense too, and rebound. Good luck outrebounding both KAT and Rudy with 6-6 guys. We can crash the offensive boards as well (take a risk a bit to get it and not lose in transition). Rebounding is huge in the game but not often talked about or glamorized.
I actually like the Wolves chances against a smaller lineup over 7 games. It'll be hard for teams to get and stay that hot to outshoot the Wolves hopefully elite defense (knock on wood it continues and still improves). Rebounding I think will be the key.
To me, shooting is way more important than rebounding. And the Wolves have already proven that their size doesn't really make a big difference when it comes to rebounding. And they get beat to almost every loose ball because they lack speed to the ball.
We have too much $ invested in Naz, Gobert, and KAT and not enough $ invested in guards. I'm not suggesting any quick fixes as long as we keep rolling, but this is not a deep playoff team constructed this way. Like I said, I'd be fine if we win one or two playoff series this year as that is still great progress. But this offense is just not good enough to go further.
We'll see. I actually think the offense will pick up over the season. Guys like Shake will get it going eventually and Finch teams are less structured so every year it seems to me like over the course of the season the team takes time to gel and figure things out on offense. Top 10 on offense and top 5 on defense (should be first they have proven they can do it) to me is achievable.
I'll also add that I have never seen Rudy play perimeter defense like he has this year. Not in Utah when he could be played off the floor, and not last year, either. It's a new element to his game he is being coached to do, and is embracing. And that new wrinkle may help push the Wolves into contender status.
60WinTim wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:12 am
I'll also add that I have never seen Rudy play perimeter defense like he has this year. Not in Utah when he could be played off the floor, and not last year, either. It's a new element to his game he is being coached to do, and is embracing. And that new wrinkle may help push the Wolves into contender status.
Agreed that Rudy is doing a great job defending on the perimeter, although that's the point of a spread offense against us...he is not in the paint to protect the rim, so it opens up lanes for cutters.
But my main concern is how he negatively impacts the offense because we feel obligated to force-feed him the ball when he has smaller players on him in the paint. A playoff defense LOVES the percentages of us trying to get Rudy the ball in the paint. In addition, even when he's not rim rolling or posting up, he still occupies a ton of space that makes it crowded for Ant to navigate. That may be one reason Ant is just pulling up for a lot more mid-range jumpers this season....just not enough space to get to the rim.
Sundog wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:57 pm
Cmon Q … enjoy the start to the season. There will be plenty of time to worry about things like that later on.
Believe it or not, I can have two feelings at the same time without them being in conflict with each other: A) I'm loving the winning and enjoying the team; and B) I don't believe they will be good enough to go deep in the playoffs this year.
Now do you have a counter-argument or pushback to the substance of my argument?
Q I guess I would argue that Rudy has never played with the talent he has on this team. Who’s the best player ever played with before joining the wolves? A young 21 year old Donovan Mitchell who’s a turnstile on defense?
I would argue they gave the NBA Champs there best series without McDaniels last year where Murrary Killed us.
Where a deeper team now that’s just missing a back up point guard which we should be able to get for 2nd round picks at the deadline.
My thing always with Rudy is he doesn’t need to be franchise that’s Ant and Kat job. We just need him to play his role at High level which even with his weaknesses he’s done that so far in begging of this season. If Ant doesn’t develops into that playoff killer and Kat plays like he has in past postseason all of this doesn’t matter anyway.
Well, this is a bold thread considering we are off to one of the best starts in Wolve's history - ha! But obviously everyone has a right to their own opinions. I do not share in the "Lip was right" mindset. I do understand the logic of that mindset. It's not a horrible take by any means. But Tim Connelly has a heck of a basketball resume. And he gets paid a shit ton of money to advise on these things. No offense to Q and/or Lip, but I'm going side with TC unless this thing blows up.
Last year was tough. Rudy wasn't as good with us as he had been in Utah. We floundered around .500 all last year and never looked "right". It was understandable to think we screwed up getting Rudy. But TC doubled down by picking up Conley and basically running everyone else back. So far, nobody should be complaining about the results.
How will this play out in the playoffs? Good question. None of us can possibly know for sure. There are going to be injuries between and then. We will likely shuffle a player or two on the roster between now and then. And I'm sure a lot will depend on what the actual match ups end up being. All I can say is I'm enjoying checking scores and seeing my team with more points than the other team.
As far as debating the trade itself and what we gave up, I think that will always be a separate argument. Probably most of us agreed at the time we gave up too much. But I see Kessler is off to a slow start this year (zero VORP). Keyonte George is negative VORP. Both guys are young and probably will improve. But, right now, I feel better about the cost myself - as long as we continue to improve with deeper runs into the playoffs.
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