KAT

[Q-is-here]

Good discussion here....

Keep in mind that Rudy does two things to help KAT defensively. First, he is indeed the rising tide that lifts all boats defensively. When you have a Center like him protecting the rim, it changes the way others guard their guys.

Second, it allows KAT to slide to the 4. Remember that during the Butler phase, KAT was still the Center. Yes, we had Taj Gibson, but he was more of an old-school 4 than a pure 5, as he wasn't all that big. A number of us have been saying for years that getting a defensive-minded Center to play next to KAT for at least half the game (with KAT also playing the 5 too) would help take a lot off of KAT's plate. Obviously, the front office was thinking the same thing and went all-in by getting the best defensive 5 in the business.

Another loss for Abe here...

I thought Towns' best value was by doing things other centers could not do. This has been a fun, remarkable turnaround.

I still contend I've been more right than wrong over the years as the longest tenured Wolves basketball fan*, but sometimes, it feels great to be wrong.


*obviously, I'm not the only "longest tenured Wolves fan"... but I can still remember the disappointment of Rick Mahorn snubbing the franchise and the pick of Pooh being quite "meh."

What really intrigues me on the offensive side is the KAT/Rudy pick and roll from the top of the key. We saw KAT throw a couple of pinpoint perfect lob passes to Rudy for dunks in the last game against Charlotte off this play. Would love to see them keep refining this action in the regular season and then see if they can profit from it when teams go small and these two can just play over the top of the defense with KAT's shooting or passing. I like it much better than passes to Rudy in the post, which get fumbled or easily stripped away 50% of the time.

(I continue to be amazed at how secure Rudy's hands are on defensive rebounds and well thrown lobs, but the second an offensive rebound comes his way, his hands and fingers immediately fuse together and become paddles that are only capable of slapping at the ball).

[AbeVigodaLive]

Good discussion here....

Keep in mind that Rudy does two things to help KAT defensively. First, he is indeed the rising tide that lifts all boats defensively. When you have a Center like him protecting the rim, it changes the way others guard their guys.

Second, it allows KAT to slide to the 4. Remember that during the Butler phase, KAT was still the Center. Yes, we had Taj Gibson, but he was more of an old-school 4 than a pure 5, as he wasn't all that big. A number of us have been saying for years that getting a defensive-minded Center to play next to KAT for at least half the game (with KAT also playing the 5 too) would help take a lot off of KAT's plate. Obviously, the front office was thinking the same thing and went all-in by getting the best defensive 5 in the business.

Another loss for Abe here...

I thought Towns' best value was by doing things other centers could not do. This has been a fun, remarkable turnaround.

I still contend I've been more right than wrong over the years as the longest tenured Wolves basketball fan*, but sometimes, it feels great to be wrong.


*obviously, I'm not the only "longest tenured Wolves fan"... but I can still remember the disappointment of Rick Mahorn snubbing the franchise and the pick of Pooh being quite "meh."

What really intrigues me on the offensive side is the KAT/Rudy pick and roll from the top of the key. We saw KAT throw a couple of pinpoint perfect lob passes to Rudy for dunks in the last game against Charlotte off this play. Would love to see them keep refining this action in the regular season and then see if they can profit from it when teams go small and these two can just play over the top of the defense with KAT's shooting or passing. I like it much better than passes to Rudy in the post, which get fumbled or easily stripped away 50% of the time.

(I continue to be amazed at how secure Rudy's hands are on defensive rebounds and well thrown lobs, but the second an offensive rebound comes his way, his hands and fingers immediately fuse together and become paddles that are only capable of slapping at the ball).

I think it's yet another thing we can blame on the French.

At some point... because I still think it could be a bit of fool's gold and still not 100% sold on the guy... I'm gonna have to write a soliloquy on Karl-Anthony Towns. It could be argued that he's the antithesis to the player entitlement era and is actually one of the most unselfish and better franchise cornerstones in the league.

[Monster]

I won't discount that as a possibility. But I will point out that didn't work with Thibs and Butler. Both brought a defense culture and I don't recall anyone writing about KAT's defense at that time. That's why I think Gobert is helping him. As FNG pointed out, it's nice to know when you get beat, the Stifle Tower has your back.

I think for the first time in Town career he is in a place where he doesn’t have to be THE guy both in his mind and in reality. Edward’s ascended last year and this year has taken another leap. Gobert is a big part of the team and is back to being a massive impact player in the league. Conley is a good vet leader at PG. Finch is in his 4 season with Towns. Connelly is the new head guy but quite a few people including Gupta stuck around. Connelly is a guy that’s been around so he probably commands some respect when he talks. Naz has ascended too so Towns even has another guy that can step into a real role if something happens to him. I think Towns has always been a team first guy (even if it doesn’t seem that way from some of his actions) but now he can actually be part of a team and just play ball. Hopefully he can stay healthy that’s been the biggest issue for him for a couple years when it was such a big positive early on in his career.

I don't disagree with your take. But I think that was part of the frustration with KAT for fans (and certainly Jimmy Butler). When you are drafted #1 overall and paid max money, the expectation is that you ARE the guy. If you end up being #2 or #3 instead of the man, then that's a different income bracket on most teams.

Again - I'm not taking anything away from the fact that he's a very good player and I'm happy to have him. I just thought he'd keep getting better each year and put this team over the top practically by himself. His first six years produced ONE winning season for the franchise. And that was the Butler year. He was the face of the franchise for six years of mostly terrible teams. Was it all his fault? Absolutely not. But we all thought adding #1 overall pick would have a greater impact. Anthony Edwards has had ONE losing season. Is that all because of him? Nope. But it's hard to find fault with what he's done because we winning.

I think it’s clear at this point that the Wolves not valuing Butler highly enough is what made him want out not Towns or Wiggins (another #1 overall pick). What Butler has done in Miami (for a good coach and organization) has been proven Bulter was right to feel he should be valued that highly.

Meanwhile in terms of #1 overall picks Anthony Davis is a hell of basketball player and I think to this point is and has been clearly a better overall player than Towns if both guys are healthy and AD isn’t a #1 guy either. Neither is Kyrie. There are future HOF players in league teams would give up a ton to acquire or would have a number of years ago if they were available. Klay Thompson wasn’t a #1 overall pick but he isn’t a #1 guy but he is a no brainer HOF 2 way wing that’s considered one of the greatest shooters of all time. There shouldn’t be any shame in being just a #2 on a championship guy. I think one of the positives about Towns is he is cool with that. I think he always has been but he also was willing and wanting (desperately so) to do all he could to help a team win. Did sometimes this get in the way of him actually being a winning player? Yeah I think so but as you have alluded to…the Wolves were not exactly a well run organization and had some real bad stuff happen that was well outside Towns control. He stuck around through its a little unfortunate he doesn’t get more positive stuff from fans about that.

Think about this: What future HOF did Towns play with in his career before Butler or Edwards? Did he even play with another all star? Ok Russell was an All-star before coming to the Wolves but as much as I like Russell he did not play anywhere near All star level play in Minnesota. There are very very few guys that are good enough to really will teams to a .500 record or a winning record nearly by themselves and Towns played for a Timberwolves franchise that literally was one of the worst pro franchises. If we are gonna look back let’s be honest about some…or really most of those years. Towns may not have been the answer but there were a lot of problems. We know that here in this forum as well as pretty much anyone.

[Coolbreeze44]

Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

[thedoper]

Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

[Leado01]

He's 50/40/90...I'd like to see him shoot a little more

[Lipoli390]

Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

I think KAT recognizes his weaknesses. He just has a hard time reigning in his emotions. It’s not an awareness issue; it’s a self-control/discipline issue in my view. He has certainly recognized his defensive weakness as he has dramatically improved his defense, going from bad to OK two seasons ago and now defending really well. So far this season he has also dramatically reduced his whining on the court and he’s making fewer boneheaded fouls, although he still has work to do in that area.

Wiggins has a more fundamental weakness - i.e., a lack of inner drive, passion or competitiveness. His play elevated when surrounded by multiple high-drive players with championship pedigrees, but that effect was only temporary. Andrew’s problem has never been self-awareness. His problem has been self-motivation. He and KAT are very different. KAT has loads of competitive drive, but he has lacked the discipline to control it. Wiggins lacks the drive and that’s not fixable, at least not on a sustainable basis.

LaVine is an enigma to me. He’s probably the one of the three who is completely lacking in self-awareness. He seems to be a physically gifted but low IQ player who just can’t learn. KAT doesn’t have a particularly high basketball IQ, but it’s nowhere near as low as LaVine’s in my view.

The good news is that KAT’s deficiencies are the ones that can be fixed by the right culture. You can’t develop competitive drive later in life, but you can develop self-discipline and learn how to control and channel your emotions productively. We’re finally seeing that with KAT now that we have a culture of expectations and accountability in the Wolves organization. I’ll also add that all players look a lot better when surrounded by talent as we saw watching Wiggins after he was traded to the Warriors. As I’ve mentioned before, KAT has rarely had even one other all-star level player on the roster with him. When he has, the Wolves have made the playoffs. This season, he has one other all-star level player (Ant) and a defensive player of the year candidate (Rudy) and we’re seeing the results.

KAT’s never going to be Embiid or Jokic. But he’s the next tier down from those two and not that far down now that he’s playing so well defensively. If the Wolves continue on the path they’re on, KAT will be a critical part of a championship run this season and perhaps multiple seasons. I don’t see the same in cards for LaVine or Wiggins at any point in the future. I’m glad KAT’s the one among the three we kept. .

[Lipoli390]

From Hoopshype:

Knicks no longer interested in Karl-Anthony Towns?

The Knicks checked in on Karl-Anthony Towns earlier this season, but they never made an offer for the three-time All-Star, league sources tell The Athletic. The Knicks’ new senior vice president of basketball operations Gersson Rosas overlapped with Towns from 2019 to 2021 when Rosas ran the Timberwolves. Towns is also a client of CAA, where Knicks president Leon Rose once ran the basketball division. Executive vice president of basketball operations William Wesley followed Rose from CAA to the Knicks, as well. – via Fred Katz @ The Athletic

My thought is that the Wolves aren’t interested (nor should they be) in trading KAT to the Knicks. It doesn’t matter whether the Knicks are interested.

[Monster]

Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

Looks like Wiggins has not played well this season. Lavine and Wiggins were all stars after they left and this thread is about Towns. I like both Wiggins and Lavine in different ways but I really don’t think what if with either guy at this point. Towns and the Wolves are playing really well. This MIGHT be the best TEAM we have ever seen for this franchise.


I’ll add this. To me while they are entirely different players McDaniels and Lavine to me are kinda comparable in how they were/are very popular and valued by Wolves fans. They were outside of the lottery picks that ended up being really talented and were/are fun to watch and in general nobody wanted to part with them. McDaniels May end up being a guy with more long term value than Lavine depending on heath and development especially since he is locked into a deal that is gonna be well below max money.


One of the biggest issues in the past for the wolves was the lack of depth and finding talent. This current roster isn’t what we are used to seeing for decades of being wolves fans. Let’s enjoy it and maybe even enjoy this Karl Anthony Towns guy who is playing really well.

[Q-is-here]

Towns, Wig, and Zach have all been all stars. That trio had a lot of talent but couldn't win for a host of reasons, some self inflicted, some organizational. With better leadership and a better strategic plan, who knows?

Now what we are seeing from Zach and Wig and to a lesser extant KAT I am not sure. I am trying to imagine the type of coaching and culture it would take to motivate these 3 to work on their deficiencies. They some 3 of the weirdest personalities I can think of and we had all 3 at the same time. They are similar with 1 common issue: None of them recognize the weaknesses in their games they need to work on from what I can tell.

I think KAT recognizes his weaknesses. He just has a hard time reigning in his emotions. It’s not an awareness issue; it’s a self-control/discipline issue in my view. He has certainly recognized his defensive weakness as he has dramatically improved his defense, going from bad to OK two seasons ago and now defending really well. So far this season he has also dramatically reduced his whining on the court and he’s making fewer boneheaded fouls, although he still has work to do in that area.

Wiggins has a more fundamental weakness - i.e., a lack of inner drive, passion or competitiveness. His play elevated when surrounded by multiple high-drive players with championship pedigrees, but that effect was only temporary. Andrew’s problem has never been self-awareness. His problem has been self-motivation. He and KAT are very different. KAT has loads of competitive drive, but he has lacked the discipline to control it. Wiggins lacks the drive and that’s not fixable, at least not on a sustainable basis.

LaVine is an enigma to me. He’s probably the one of the three who is completely lacking in self-awareness. He seems to be a physically gifted but low IQ player who just can’t learn. KAT doesn’t have a particularly high basketball IQ, but it’s nowhere near as low as LaVine’s in my view.

The good news is that KAT’s deficiencies are the ones that can be fixed by the right culture. You can’t develop competitive drive later in life, but you can develop self-discipline and learn how to control and channel your emotions productively. We’re finally seeing that with KAT now that we have a culture of expectations and accountability in the Wolves organization. I’ll also add that all players look a lot better when surrounded by talent as we saw watching Wiggins after he was traded to the Warriors. As I’ve mentioned before, KAT has rarely had even one other all-star level player on the roster with him. When he has, the Wolves have made the playoffs. This season, he has one other all-star level player (Ant) and a defensive player of the year candidate (Rudy) and we’re seeing the results.

KAT’s never going to be Embiid or Jokic. But he’s the next tier down from those two and not that far down now that he’s playing so well defensively. If the Wolves continue on the path they’re on, KAT will be a critical part of a championship run this season and perhaps multiple seasons. I don’t see the same in cards for LaVine or Wiggins at any point in the future. I’m glad KAT’s the one among the three we kept. .

I agree with your assessment of these three guys Lip.

In 10 NBA seasons, Zach LaVine has had one season where he carried a positive net rating and two seasons where he carried a positive On/Off net rating (meaning the difference between how the team performed when he was on the court versus off the court). So in 8 out of 10 seasons, his team does better with him off the court and in 9 out of 10 seasons his team loses the points battle when he's on the court. Neither Wiggins or KAT have been that bad and of course Andrew had that one playoff run where he actually tried hard and ended up helping the Warriors win a title. He's been on cruise control ever since and is playing terribly right now.

KAT is the best of the three, but he just never really made it to that superstar level and developed an annoying persona along the way which seems to have course-corrected a bit this season.