Just glanced at VORP and noticed it's currently a two way tie at the top...but not with the two guys we'd expect:
1.2 - Conley and Edwards
1.1 - KAT
0.8 - Rudy
0.6 - NAZ
0.4 - SloMo
0.3 - NAW
0.2 - TBJ
0.1 - JMac
0.1 - Leonard Miller earned himself a little VORP with 3 for 3 in five minutes last night
0.0 - McDaniels, Minott, Nix, WMJ. We need more/better from McDaniels.
(0.1) - Garza is below zero in only 18 minutes.
(0.3) - Shake has been below zero all year
Key Individual Stats Tracker
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
30 Game Update Below:
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player (see more below). I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
Rudy - 18.5/.201/.9/+9.4
KAT - 18.8/.156/1.0/+8.7
Ant - 19.9/.134/1.3/+10.1
Conley - 16.0/.199/1.2/+9.4
SloMo - 11.4/.091/.4/+2.3
NAW - 9.6/.094/.4/+2.8
Naz - 16.3/.134/.6/+2.7
Jaden - 10.9/.105/.1/+5.7
Shake - 7.8/.039/-.3/-3.7
TBJ - 12.0/.134/.2/+3.6
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player (see more below). I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
Rudy - 18.5/.201/.9/+9.4
KAT - 18.8/.156/1.0/+8.7
Ant - 19.9/.134/1.3/+10.1
Conley - 16.0/.199/1.2/+9.4
SloMo - 11.4/.091/.4/+2.3
NAW - 9.6/.094/.4/+2.8
Naz - 16.3/.134/.6/+2.7
Jaden - 10.9/.105/.1/+5.7
Shake - 7.8/.039/-.3/-3.7
TBJ - 12.0/.134/.2/+3.6
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
Thanks for the above, Q...very informative.
I'll add net rating on BasketballReference,com (ORtg-DRtg) from best to worst just because it mostly matches up with how I see individual value this season (and I'll leave out JMac's +26)
.
Bite Bite: 25
Rudy: 22
TBJ 11
KAT: 8
NAZ 6
Jaden 4
Ant: 4
NAW 0
SloMo -2
Shake -12
I'll add net rating on BasketballReference,com (ORtg-DRtg) from best to worst just because it mostly matches up with how I see individual value this season (and I'll leave out JMac's +26)
.Bite Bite: 25
Rudy: 22
TBJ 11
KAT: 8
NAZ 6
Jaden 4
Ant: 4
NAW 0
SloMo -2
Shake -12
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
- Rudy, Ant, and KAT are clearly our "big three", but it's hard to say who is truly the alpha dog of this group if you only look at the stats. There is no Jokic, Doncic, or Haliburton on this team.
- Mike Conley is having an incredibly effective and efficient season, regardless of age. What more could you possibly ask for in a starting PG playing next to Ant? Perfect fit. The only soft spot in his game is that I think he could be targeted in the playoffs. While he's certainly a better defender than DLO, he can get overwhelmed on switches against bigger athletic guards and wings.
- Jaden...I know he expends a ton of energy on defense, but man, I wish he'd give us more counting stats - scoring, rebounding, and assists. I don't expect a lot more given his current role, but feels like he has the skills and upside to go beyond simply being a better version of NAW.
- The two contracts I keep looking at as trade assets are SloMo and Reid. I personally don't feel the team is constructed in a way to make a deep playoff run, as crazy as that sounds given our record. I'd be open to trading one or both of these guys if it gets us some backcourt help, whether it's a Tyus Jones-type at PG or a Luke Kennard-type pure shooter. Obviously I don't view either of our guys as addition-by-subtraction types. Both are positive players off the bench. But we simply don't have enough backcourt depth and we have a surplus of frontcourt depth.
- Mike Conley is having an incredibly effective and efficient season, regardless of age. What more could you possibly ask for in a starting PG playing next to Ant? Perfect fit. The only soft spot in his game is that I think he could be targeted in the playoffs. While he's certainly a better defender than DLO, he can get overwhelmed on switches against bigger athletic guards and wings.
- Jaden...I know he expends a ton of energy on defense, but man, I wish he'd give us more counting stats - scoring, rebounding, and assists. I don't expect a lot more given his current role, but feels like he has the skills and upside to go beyond simply being a better version of NAW.
- The two contracts I keep looking at as trade assets are SloMo and Reid. I personally don't feel the team is constructed in a way to make a deep playoff run, as crazy as that sounds given our record. I'd be open to trading one or both of these guys if it gets us some backcourt help, whether it's a Tyus Jones-type at PG or a Luke Kennard-type pure shooter. Obviously I don't view either of our guys as addition-by-subtraction types. Both are positive players off the bench. But we simply don't have enough backcourt depth and we have a surplus of frontcourt depth.
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
One other thought on Ant's not-so-big leap this year....most of the top tier guys that entered the league at age 19 tend to hit their peak in year 6 and then continue at that level for three or four years before starting to gradually tail off. That doesn't automatically mean Ant will keep improving, as there are plenty of top prospects that plateau earlier than that (KAT for example).
Bottom line is that Ant still has a couple more years before we can say "he is what he is". At this same stage in their career, Ant is ahead of the likes of Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell. However, he's a little behind SGA.
Bottom line is that Ant still has a couple more years before we can say "he is what he is". At this same stage in their career, Ant is ahead of the likes of Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell. However, he's a little behind SGA.
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
40 Game Update Below:
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player. A cumulative stat that rewards good players that play lots of minutes. Derives from Box Score Plus-Minus (BPM) which isn't cumulative. I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
KAT - 19.2/.163/1.6/+8.0
Ant - 19.6/.125/1.8/+9.7
Rudy - 18.5/.199/1.2/+10.4
Conley - 15.5/.190/1.5/+10.2
SloMo - 11.7/.100/.6/+1.0
Naz - 16.6/.138/.9/+3.9
NAW - 9.4/.090/.5/+2.3
Jaden - 10.1/.089/0.0/+6.6
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player. A cumulative stat that rewards good players that play lots of minutes. Derives from Box Score Plus-Minus (BPM) which isn't cumulative. I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
KAT - 19.2/.163/1.6/+8.0
Ant - 19.6/.125/1.8/+9.7
Rudy - 18.5/.199/1.2/+10.4
Conley - 15.5/.190/1.5/+10.2
SloMo - 11.7/.100/.6/+1.0
Naz - 16.6/.138/.9/+3.9
NAW - 9.4/.090/.5/+2.3
Jaden - 10.1/.089/0.0/+6.6
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
- Rudy continues to be the MVP of this team IMO. Our #1 defense doesn't hold up without Rudy.
- Mike Conley is damn close to Rudy status. If he's out, our offense turns into a turnover-prone iso fest.
- KAT and Ant. We can probably survive a stretch of games without either one of these guys, so long as the other guy is healthy. This is why I don't necessarily consider either one more valuable than Rudy right now. Both can handle more usage offensively if needed. But no one can do what Rudy can do.
- Jaden doesn't do well here because it's really hard to put a statistical value on shutting down guys. Still, would love to see him expand his game more and contribute in other ways.
- NAW, SloMo, and Naz - These three have etched their names in stone as our 6th thru 8th men. I didn't include the likes of TBJ, Milton, or McLaughlin in this latest tracker because none of them have had a consistent enough role to really evaluate them.
Assuming Finch largely goes with an 8-man playoff rotation, is there really an opportunity to pick someone up from the buyout market that could crack the rotation by either displacing one of the aforementioned names above or becoming a 9th man? Would any of you still be willing to trade any of these top 8 before the deadline?
- Mike Conley is damn close to Rudy status. If he's out, our offense turns into a turnover-prone iso fest.
- KAT and Ant. We can probably survive a stretch of games without either one of these guys, so long as the other guy is healthy. This is why I don't necessarily consider either one more valuable than Rudy right now. Both can handle more usage offensively if needed. But no one can do what Rudy can do.
- Jaden doesn't do well here because it's really hard to put a statistical value on shutting down guys. Still, would love to see him expand his game more and contribute in other ways.
- NAW, SloMo, and Naz - These three have etched their names in stone as our 6th thru 8th men. I didn't include the likes of TBJ, Milton, or McLaughlin in this latest tracker because none of them have had a consistent enough role to really evaluate them.
Assuming Finch largely goes with an 8-man playoff rotation, is there really an opportunity to pick someone up from the buyout market that could crack the rotation by either displacing one of the aforementioned names above or becoming a 9th man? Would any of you still be willing to trade any of these top 8 before the deadline?
-
Carlos Danger
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
Just one man's opinion...but, no - you cannot make any trades involving the main 8 or 9 guys. We are the #1 seed in the West. You have to dance with the ones that brought you. These guys deserve a chance to play this out.
It comes down to risk/reward. You risk screwing up this team chemistry on what is already a top seed for the reward of a slightly better team. It's not worth it IMO. I'd rather just upgrade the bottom of the roster with buyout guys that would be better options than Moore Jr., Minott etc. should any of our main guys go down.
It comes down to risk/reward. You risk screwing up this team chemistry on what is already a top seed for the reward of a slightly better team. It's not worth it IMO. I'd rather just upgrade the bottom of the roster with buyout guys that would be better options than Moore Jr., Minott etc. should any of our main guys go down.
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
All-Star Break Update Below:
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player. A cumulative stat that rewards good players that play lots of minutes. Derives from Box Score Plus-Minus (BPM) which isn't cumulative. I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
Ant - 19.9/.142/2.7/+10.7
Rudy - 18.8/.211/1.7/+10.3
KAT - 19.5/.166/2.2/+7.9
Conley - 15.5/.194/2.1/+9.3
Jaden- 9.6/.084/0.0/+7.5
NAW - 9.9/.103/.7/+6.3
Naz - 15.5/.125/1.1/+8.2
SloMo - 12.3/.121/1.0/+3.8
PER - Very much individual box-score driven and rewards volume more than efficiency. Doesn't really account for defense. This tends to reward higher usage offensive players and guys that get lots of counting stats.
WS/48 - Combines individual box-score stats with team performance; tends to reward efficiency as much as volume; tries to apportion team performance to individual players, so a great team defense for example tends to lift all boats (or weight them down if the defense is poor).
VORP - Value over Replacement Player. A cumulative stat that rewards good players that play lots of minutes. Derives from Box Score Plus-Minus (BPM) which isn't cumulative. I know Carlos likes this one!
Net Rating - Team points per 100 possessions minus opponent points per 100 possessions while player is on the floor.
Player - PER/WS48/VORP/Net Rating
Ant - 19.9/.142/2.7/+10.7
Rudy - 18.8/.211/1.7/+10.3
KAT - 19.5/.166/2.2/+7.9
Conley - 15.5/.194/2.1/+9.3
Jaden- 9.6/.084/0.0/+7.5
NAW - 9.9/.103/.7/+6.3
Naz - 15.5/.125/1.1/+8.2
SloMo - 12.3/.121/1.0/+3.8
Last edited by Q-is-here on Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Key Individual Stats Tracker
- Every single main guy in the rotation has a positive net rating.
- Our budding star Anthony Edwards has the best net rating on the team.
- SloMo has made some positive strides recently. The list is in order of total minutes played and you will see that he has slipped from earlier versions of the stat tracker, perhaps indicating that Finch is narrowing Kyle's role a bit since first introducing McLaughlin and then Morris into the rotation. That's a good thing. We can't become over-reliant on Kyle to run the bench offense.
- I'll add Monte Morris to this list post-All Star break, but the sample size is just too small right now. And I don't include anyone else (like McLaughlin) that aren't consistent members of the rotation over a sustained timeframe.
- Our budding star Anthony Edwards has the best net rating on the team.
- SloMo has made some positive strides recently. The list is in order of total minutes played and you will see that he has slipped from earlier versions of the stat tracker, perhaps indicating that Finch is narrowing Kyle's role a bit since first introducing McLaughlin and then Morris into the rotation. That's a good thing. We can't become over-reliant on Kyle to run the bench offense.
- I'll add Monte Morris to this list post-All Star break, but the sample size is just too small right now. And I don't include anyone else (like McLaughlin) that aren't consistent members of the rotation over a sustained timeframe.